How to Thread-Lock Anchor Swivel ?

[AllezCat]

I have finished my anchor shackle/swivel dilema - want to add to the thread may help others.
I ordered 2 1/2" wasi-Balls. They would solve the problem of getting the shackles thru the bow-rollers.
They are awesome pieces of engineering. Has sleeve around main pin, and 2 set screws(grub screws) to hold pins in place.
However, they would not fit either of my anchors. The small anchor( Shark 110LB) had the slot begin too far down the shank., The larger one (110kg had a too thick shank.
So after trying many different options - I used 2 5/8" galvanized shackles on each anchor to join the swivel to the anchor. Required 2 as there was not enough space in one.
Had welder cut of thumb thingies and weld the shackles closed - sprayed with gal - and bobs-my-uncle...
Seems convoluted but the strength of the shackle is rated and still sound, and all is joined with a slim flexible system all rated higher than the chain- finally...

[Sailor g]

Looks a pretty cool device- never heard of wadi-balls. Looks solid. I would love to hear how it works once you've used it a while. Great photo too-I can see the website on it!

[daddle]

Swivels? Does chain not twist on its own just fine? Why? I have never had a swivel in years of anchoring. The anchor comes up just fine. Sometimes it spins a bit as the chain untwists. But it's always been just fine. Why bother?

[Dhillen]

Good luck with your swivel solution, all boats are different and if it works for you because of your rollers then that's good.

However, I am of the view that swivels should be avoided if at all possible. This was implanted in my brain at an early age by my grizzled Alaskan skipper when I worked in Kodiak on a fishing boat. I asked him why he didn't use a swivel. His answer: "I like to sleep with both eyes closed."

Dhillen

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Sailor g

Looks a pretty cool device- never heard of wadi-balls...

Perhaps, because it’s a “WASI” Power Ball?
➥ Stainless steel fasteners and nuts according to DIN and ISO

[AllezCat]

I bought it from these guys:
BargainBoatParts.com - WASI POWER BALL - Chain to Anchor Connector
never ordered from them before.
Excellent customer service!!

I would probably prefer a very large shackle - but it will not fit thru bow-roller. Nor will the pin fit thru the chain link...
Swivels have these advantages and more.
But, may have other cons??...

[sy_gilana]

Here we go again, hahaha, anchors and swivels.
We have never used a swivel. We have lived at anchor for over 6000 days and nights.
IF we go round and round, the chain gets twisted, but it gets untwisted as well. In West Palm Beach we had tide changes 4 times a day. All we did was leave the rudder over 10 deg to port for 4 days, then to stbd for 4 days, and the twists undid themselves.

We now own two nice new big anchors found while snorkeling. Both of them had a broken half a swivel attached.

Re aligning for shipping in the roller, well, with a swivel the anchor rotates independently, so, if the anchor comes up cock-a-wise, with a swivel you have to poke it with your boathook, while without a swivel, all I do is grab the chain on deck and apply twist, it is transmitted to the anchor which turns and then haul away.

Swivels suck! get a decent proofed shackle in in the same material as the anchor. Get your last link fitted for the shackle pin. Our chain is 1/2" and our shackle is a Crosby 5/8 with WLL 3 1/4 T. The last link MUST touch the shackle pin for 180 degrees not a point load. The threads are smeared with Lanolin. Siezed with plastic cable ties, and a plastic washer locates the chain in the center of the shackle pin.

Finally, IF these stupid swivel gizmos were so great, Why cant you find them on any Navy ships, Commercial ships etc?

just sayin'

[bobconnie]

Seems to me if your gonna use 2 shackles, why the heck ya gonna need a wasi ball ?? ya all ready have a bunch of stuff that can hang up already !! never had a swivel on a anchor chain in my life! just a shackle properly safety wired ! and Ive slept well !!!maybe you folks are just looking for some NEW stuff, get real the least junk you have hanging there, the smaller chance you have of stuff parting and leaveing ya floating free !! Just a thought from someone who has anchored in just about every type of bottom there is ! Im thinking ya need to learn to anchor up properly, and forget the super shiney stuff that you can take pics of, and get the anchor set properly! just my 2 cents

[AllezCat]

Originally Posted by sy_gilana

Here we go again, hahaha, anchors and swivels.
We have never used a swivel. We have lived at anchor for over 6000 days and nights.
IF we go round and round, the chain gets twisted, but it gets untwisted as well. In West Palm Beach we had tide changes 4 times a day. All we did was leave the rudder over 10 deg to port for 4 days, then to stbd for 4 days, and the twists undid themselves.

We now own two nice new big anchors found while snorkeling. Both of them had a broken half a swivel attached.

Re aligning for shipping in the roller, well, with a swivel the anchor rotates independently, so, if the anchor comes up cock-a-wise, with a swivel you have to poke it with your boathook, while without a swivel, all I do is grab the chain on deck and apply twist, it is transmitted to the anchor which turns and then haul away.

Swivels suck! get a decent proofed shackle in in the same material as the anchor. Get your last link fitted for the shackle pin. Our chain is 1/2" and our shackle is a Crosby 5/8 with WLL 3 1/4 T. The last link MUST touch the shackle pin for 180 degrees not a point load. The threads are smeared with Lanolin. Siezed with plastic cable ties, and a plastic washer locates the chain in the center of the shackle pin.

Finally, IF these stupid swivel gizmos were so great, Why cant you find them on any Navy ships, Commercial ships etc?

just sayin'

I don't disagree with you.
But, the problem with some vessels is the anchor roller is not big enough to allow shackles thru.
Maybe it is putting lipstick on a pig - and I should have redesigned the windless etc to mount on deck and anchors to "roll" over the catamaran crossbeam, but I am finally happy with the strength and functionality of it now...

I was on the moorings at 79th st boat basin 1997 in a 44' catamaran. We had major weird dilemas witht the bridle attachment. Beam on to the current - bridle under vessel - and dragged the 400lb mushroom anchor mooring up wind...
I returned last year (anchored) and spoke to the dock master. he said they put swivels on the moorings now - as the cats rotate and "unscrew" the mushroom anchors. however, that was not my experience. He said there are different theories. Anyway, they do not allow cats...
I have also made a dual all chain swiveled anchor bridle (connects to 1" eye-spliced mega braid bridle arms). this is for dual anchor, and Bahamian moorings on two anchors.
trying to attenuate inherent twisting/torquing is something easily prevented with the swivels for the bridals- and probably for the main rode...

cheers

[Cotemar]

AllezCat,

Are you using the swivel becuase your anchor is coming up backwards?

[AllezCat]

Originally Posted by bobconnie

Seems to me if your gonna use 2 shackles, why the heck ya gonna need a wasi ball ?? ya all ready have a bunch of stuff that can hang up already !! never had a swivel on a anchor chain in my life! just a shackle properly safety wired ! and Ive slept well !!!maybe you folks are just looking for some NEW stuff, get real the least junk you have hanging there, the smaller chance you have of stuff parting and leaveing ya floating free !! Just a thought from someone who has anchored in just about every type of bottom there is ! Im thinking ya need to learn to anchor up properly, and forget the super shiney stuff that you can take pics of, and get the anchor set properly! just my 2 cents

I think you need to read all the info first.

The largest (pinless) wichard shackle is 12 mm and too small (IMO)
The 5/8" shackles do not fit thru the roller with thumb pins.
The 5/8" shackle pins do not fit thru the chain links...
One 5/8" shackle does not fit thru anchor and wasi-ball...
One 3/4" shackle doesn't fit thru bow-roller even if pins are cut off...
I have bought all these items and searched and tested and experimented...
I think the roller windless system on my vessel was designed to only allow the swivels...
The shackles are rated and still intact - so I am confident they are 50% stronger than chain (even if there were hundreds of them).
I would not be confident in someone "creating" a larger link out of ????

Any other suggestions?

[AllezCat]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

AllezCat,

Are you using the swivel becuase your anchor is coming up backwards?

no
because I cannot figure another way to connect it to the chain and make it operate...

[AllezCat]

here is a photo of the "below the cross beam roller contraptions".
this vessel has the windless below the deck (half under the mast). chain under the trampoline.
i believe there would be no issue if everything was above the deck - and rollers were sitting on top of the crossbeam.
I reckon next refit I will move everything above the deck - I cruise - no cocktail parties - so don't need it looking so pretty...

Some people need to realize that different boats present different problems. And we are discussing solutions for these problems...

Such as:
Ever had floating trees getting stuck across your "bows" while at anchor on a monohull? No? Probably never happens...

Ever crossed an ocean running downwind and been annoyed at the constant side to side rolling on a catamaran? No? me either. never happened to me on a catamaran...

Ever "sailed side to side" constantly while at anchor - on the bridle - in a catamaran?
My St Francis 44 never did it - ever. (I didn't even know it could happen)
My Catana 582 does it excessively....

[Cotemar]

AllezCat,

No worries. Was just wondering, because my anchor comes up backwards like every 3rd time. I have a swivel now and it does not help. I purchased a righting swivel which I am about to try next.

My 1st mate works the anchor when I am at the helm (She likes that job). Only problem is she is not strong enough to grab the chain and twist it and her arms are not long enough to reach through the tramp and turn the anchor on the swivel, so I have to go forward and do it for her. She does not want to take the helm. You can see my dilemma here.

[sy_gilana]

Allez Cat, its easy to stretch the last link to take a 5/8 Shackle. I could not believe how easy. All you need is a tapered pin, I think they call them BullPins in the USA. Anyway it looks like a ring sizing tool. I borrowed one and thought I would give it a few taps with a Ballpien hammer, just to see. I supported the chain on the back of the anchor, and 3 whacks later checked for fit, it was perfect. I was imagining 10-12 hard hits. If you cannot find one, its easy to find a machine shop and ask them to knock it up on a lathe. It needs to increase from chain dia (present) to pin dia (Desired) over about 3". Sailed a Catana 522 recently, She did not hunt at anchor too badly. The bridle was to the bow cleats, chainhook was well away, maybe 8m per leg, a large slack loop in the chain. I have seen cats twist and turn when the charter clients left them anchored by the windlass on the bridgedeck right in front of the mast, the chain rubbed all the way to 90deg. on the hulls. Charter clients thought is was normal...!!!