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Old 18-08-2017, 16:36   #1
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Question How to measure a gypsy?

Is it possible/practical to measure a gypsy somehow?

I would like to buy new 10mm grade 40 chain for my 45' monohull, and of course I would like it to match the existing windlass. Trouble is - I don't know what the gypsy is dimensioned for.

The boat was purchased second-hand, and it came with 50m of galvanized chain consisting of 30m and 20m lengths joined together by one of those stainless hammer-it-together links.

While trying to measure the chain I realized that the two lengths are actually rather different. The 30m length (nearer to the anchor) is obviously ISO 10mm (30mm inside link length, 50mm outside link length), but the second 20m section appears to be some weird 49mm link length which does not seem like DIN 766.

The windlass is a 1400W Quick 'Aries' of 1400W, circa 2005. I took it apart to clean the clutches and inspect the gypsy, but the only two markings that I can find say "10mm" and "3/8". Nothing about link length.

Can I somehow measure the gypsy, even in the absence of lab equipment?

Thanks!
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Old 18-08-2017, 17:01   #2
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Re: How to measure a gypsy?

Hmm... this may not be the exact answer you are looking for but AFAIK, almost all gypsies are designed for "short link" chain.

There is some tolerance in the size of chain each gypsy will accept e.g. your gypsy seems to accept both 10mm and 3/8" chain. Note that 3/8" is 9.525 mm with is about a 5% difference. Similarly the length while important, it is not critical. I expect your 1 mm difference won't make any difference to the performance of the gypsy. Note it is about a 2% difference.
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Old 18-08-2017, 17:36   #3
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Re: How to measure a gypsy?

One of the ways chain wears out is the space between links gets longer and so it no longer fits the gypsy. After a while 5/16" chain becomes the length of 3/8" chain. Rule of thumb here; a 5/16" link of chain is 5 x 5/16" long. As it wears out the spacing get longer and on a horz windlass that can be a problem.
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Old 18-08-2017, 18:59   #4
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Re: How to measure a gypsy?

Short of better advice from other contributors - I at least recommend a test fitting. Maybe get a couple short samples from your chandlery and see how they wind.
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Old 18-08-2017, 19:12   #5
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Re: How to measure a gypsy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SecondBase View Post
Short of better advice from other contributors - I at least recommend a test fitting. Maybe get a couple short samples from your chandlery and see how they wind.


Simple, easy and foolproof. Buy a 1-2' length of chain and see if it fits the gypsy.

FYI you cannot buy chain based on the wire size like 5/16", 3/8", 9mm or 10 mm. There are different chain types that use the same wire size but have very different link dimensions. For example, 5/16" G40 is almost the same link size as 3/8" BBB and both work perfectly in my gypsy. And 5/16"G40 will not fit in a gypsy that works with 5/16" BBB. There is no rule of thumb for comparing the wire size with the link size.

The critical spec to determine if a chain fits your gypsy is the number of links/foot which is set by the inside length of the link. Within reason, the wire size doesn't really matter unless you go to some extreme.
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Old 18-08-2017, 19:32   #6
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Re: How to measure a gypsy?

This is pretty informative.
https://coxengineering.sharepoint.co...finitions.aspx
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Old 18-08-2017, 19:51   #7
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Re: How to measure a gypsy?

To avoid having to buy little bits of chain, simply remove the gypsy and take it with you to your chain vendor. You can then both check a full wrap around the gypsy and get advice from the vendor, who actually may know something on the subject.

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Old 18-08-2017, 20:02   #8
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Re: How to measure a gypsy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
To avoid having to buy little bits of chain, simply remove the gypsy and take it with you to your chain vendor. You can then both check a full wrap around the gypsy and get advice from the vendor, who actually may know something on the subject.

jim


Nice parlay Jim. Gotta love CF !! The advice and ideas grow as we go.
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Old 19-08-2017, 00:07   #9
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Re: How to measure a gypsy?

Thank you for the advice. I will take the gypsy off and go check it against the chain, though I initially imagined that would not be sufficiently precise to pick between ISO 10mm (50mm link) and DIN 766 (48mm link) over just a few links of manhandled heavy chain.

Given that key difference in the two common metric sizes of 10mm chain, I would have thought the link length is just about the most important attribute worth stamping on the gypsy. No such luck
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Old 19-08-2017, 00:19   #10
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Re: How to measure a gypsy?

Ask Aries in Italy. I had good information when I contacted them.
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Old 19-08-2017, 03:11   #11
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Re: How to measure a gypsy?

My understanding is the
766 - link length of 28mm
ISO - link length of 30mm

I have just ordered 80 meters of ISO 10mm for my quick windlass and if it does not fit well new gypsy . Such is life I suppose when you are a country away from a chandler.
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Old 19-08-2017, 03:18   #12
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Re: How to measure a gypsy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
To avoid having to buy little bits of chain, simply remove the gypsy and take it with you to your chain vendor. You can then both check a full wrap around the gypsy and get advice from the vendor, who actually may know something on the subject.

jim
This is certainly the best option unless, like me, you're a long, long way from the nearest chain vendor.

Anyone interested in several two foot lengths of chain in assorted sizes?
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Old 19-08-2017, 04:18   #13
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Re: How to measure a gypsy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeFergie View Post
My understanding is the
766 - link length of 28mm
ISO - link length of 30mm
Yes, that is what I understand of the dimensions:

DIN 766: 28mm inside, 48mm outside link size.
ISO: 30mm inside, 50mm outside link size.

Given the diameter is meant to be 10mm, it is reassuring that 28+10+10=48, and 30+10+10=50

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeFergie View Post
I have just ordered 80 meters of ISO 10mm for my quick windlass and if it does not fit well new gypsy . Such is life I suppose when you are a country away from a chandler.
I am in Greece and it is covered in chandlers, though few of them stock anything other than uncertified mystery chain, so again it really becomes an Internet transaction with the chandler acting as nothing more than a delivery address for ~200kg worth of metal.
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Old 19-08-2017, 05:38   #14
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Re: How to measure a gypsy?

I've always found that if you sit down and have a smoke and a drink or two with a gypsy, maybe sing a song or do a jig, then they are fairly cooperative. then you can just ask em what their size is!

...don't bring your daughters along tho. they tend go all funny when gypsy's get involved...

)
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Old 19-08-2017, 09:52   #15
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Re: How to measure a gypsy?

So, i just installed a Windlass on a customers boat, purchased from West Marine, 10 MM was need, guess what ?, the 10 MM at the store did not fit, to long, had to order the correct size, took a month to receive it, as the factory [USA] was out and wasn't going to make a run again for week's, Soooo, be careful.
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