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Old 18-01-2009, 08:02   #16
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with split backstays, you could run the riding sail up the topping lift. not as far aft but still provides some help. might need to be sized bigger than a backstay rider. you'll want a rigid vang for this.
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Old 09-04-2009, 10:31   #17
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I have had some luck with a lunch hook dropped off the stern so that it is JUST on the bottom it helps keep the boat from sailing about on the anchor. We also used one of the fishermans drift anchors hung off the rear. These will work for sailing(with the wind) at anchor but they will work to a current and if it is opposing the wind it could get rolly.........m
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Old 09-04-2009, 11:59   #18
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I've sat on my boat several times and contemplated how to use a rolling hitch to make a bridle, and can't do it. I also have 30' of chain followed by nylon. If one end of the bridle is attached to the rode, that only leaves one end to run through a chock to a cleat or winch. What am is missing? thanks, Pete
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Old 09-04-2009, 12:03   #19
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Originally Posted by pete33458 View Post
I've sat on my boat several times and contemplated how to use a rolling hitch to make a bridle, and can't do it. I also have 30' of chain followed by nylon. If one end of the bridle is attached to the rode, that only leaves one end to run through a chock to a cleat or winch. What am is missing? thanks, Pete
Generally when using a rolling hitch for a bridle, one end is attached to the chain and other led over the bow roller to a cleat.

BTW - it is usually not necessary to use a snubber if you have nylon rode out.

Jack
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Old 09-04-2009, 12:04   #20
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If we are talking fiber, the rode is the other leg.

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Originally Posted by pete33458 View Post
I've sat on my boat several times and contemplated how to use a rolling hitch to make a bridle, and can't do it. I also have 30' of chain followed by nylon. If one end of the bridle is attached to the rode, that only leaves one end to run through a chock to a cleat or winch. What am is missing? thanks, Pete
The rolling hitch line goes to one side, the rode to the other. In this case, the rode is not slack.

If you are talking chain, just replace the chain hook in an earlier post with a short piece of rope. Chain plates are also common (see my blog, below). This one has the advanatage that it can't come of the chain when slack.
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Old 09-04-2009, 13:54   #21
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Generally when using a rolling hitch for a bridle, one end is attached to the chain and other led over the bow roller to a cleat.

BTW - it is usually not necessary to use a snubber if you have nylon rode out.

Jack
Thanks Jack: I've always been a little concerned about the stress on the bow roller when it's choppy, and thought it would be better to send it to the hull through the chocks. Perhaps this isn't necessary? I would think it would be somewhat better, at least. pete
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Old 09-04-2009, 14:27   #22
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Thanks Jack: I've always been a little concerned about the stress on the bow roller when it's choppy, and thought it would be better to send it to the hull through the chocks. Perhaps this isn't necessary? I would think it would be somewhat better, at least. pete
With the "proper" scope there should be little force on the bow roller, unless you are in high winds at which point the additional scope and subsequent change in angle should lessen the force on the bow roller.

If the winds are really strong and the boat is sailing on the anchor, I let an additional 6" of rode every hour or so to minimize chafe. A snubber would complicate the easing of the rode.
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Old 09-04-2009, 18:33   #23
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I don't think a bridle will have an effect on the boat shearing about. If it IS shearing it will just move the force from one cleat to the other and you might introduce chafe across a stem fitting if you have one.

Try a riding sail to settle the boat down.

If you use all chain you will want a 30' nylon snubber and that can be rigged over the bow roller and tied off to one cleat.
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Old 10-04-2009, 04:54   #24
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... If the winds are really strong and the boat is sailing on the anchor, I let an additional 6" of rode every hour or so to minimize chafe. A snubber would complicate the easing of the rode.
Which is why we recommend LONG bridle/snubber lines. A 50 ft. snubber line, with (say) 20 feet deployed, provides ample extra line for lengthening your rode, without retying the snubber connection to the rode.
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Old 10-04-2009, 09:20   #25
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Which is why we recommend LONG bridle/snubber lines. A 50 ft. snubber line, with (say) 20 feet deployed, provides ample extra line for lengthening your rode, without retying the snubber connection to the rode.
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I have not tried using a snubber line if I have nylon rode out. What are the advantages of doing so?

Thanks

Jack
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Old 10-04-2009, 12:01   #26
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Gord
I have not tried using a snubber line if I have nylon rode out. What are the advantages of doing so?
Thanks
Jack
Increased shock absorption on the smaller diameter snubber, whilst still enjoying the ultimate security of the heavier (but slack) rode.
FWIW, I wouldn’t normally bother with a snubber on a nylon rode of sufficient length (at least 20' of rope deployed).
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Old 11-10-2009, 08:11   #27
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Bridle Making too much noise!

I was anchored in 25 plus knots of wind the other night and tried a new bridle arrangement which resulted in a lot of "rubbing" noise when wind gusts would hit. Has anyone else experienced this?

Here are the facts: Tayana 37(22.5 lb design displacement probably closer to 30K) 45lb Manson Supreme with 80 ft of 3/8 BBB chain spliced to 150 ft of 5/8 3 strand nylon

The bridle is made up of a single line of Dacron 3/4 inch line with a alpine butterfly tied in middle with a shackle attached to a 1/2 inch dacron line which was tied directly with a klenheist knot to the chain. Did not have more than 80 feet of line out thus was not using any of the 3 strand line. Scope was about 5:1

Dacron does not stretch as much as nylon and normally under more severe conditions I would be attaching the bridle directly to the nylon rode which would provide the shock absorption. I like the idea of less stretch for the bridle where is passed through the hause to the cleats since the more stretch(the more heat) the more likely chafe will occur. I looked at the bridle when the wind gusts would hit and the line was not rubbing on the bob stay and the bow would pass from port to starboard with the strain going from one cleat to the other. I'm not even sure that the bridle dampens the "hunting" from side to side, but getting the load of the bow spirit surely has merit. On a Tayana there is a "rub rail" about 5 inches below the cap rail which protrudes under the bow cleat and it was this rail that the bridle was rubing and providing the noise! No evidence of chafing but under more severe conditions this could be a problem.

In the past I've used two seperate lines(1/2 nylon double braid) tied directly to the rode for the bridle and while that set up resulted in some rubbing on the bob stay, I did not get that god awful sound I recently experienced the other night.
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Old 11-10-2009, 09:09   #28
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hmmm . . . most of us just live with the sailing back and forth and don't do anything special to try to prevent it.

We use a bridle on our snubber in very strong winds, but just to have an extra line on the hook in case one chafes thru. I don't think it does much to reduce the sailing back and forth.

Anchoring by the stern makes theoretical sense to me, and we do use drogues offshore successfully; and in Chile when we tie to the shore, we do tie stern to the wind and it does keep the bow quiet and pointing downwind. but I have not experimented much with it in a 'normal' anchoring situation.

The riding sail and the 'cock the boat at and angle' methods have always seemed to me to increase the boat's windage, so not a good idea in strong winds . . . but I really have not experimented with them much.

If you really find this sailing back and forth annoying, I would suggest trying the stern to method and reporting back how it goes and what you learn. I would be quite interested in your findings. It would be really nice for someone with a load cell to try the various techniques and report which ones put the lowest loads on the rode.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:04   #29
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I believe using the dacron was the mistake.

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Originally Posted by lancelot9898 View Post
I was anchored in 25 plus knots of wind the other night and tried a new bridle arrangement which resulted in a lot of "rubbing" noise when wind gusts would hit. Has anyone else experienced this?

Here are the facts: Tayana 37(22.5 lb design displacement probably closer to 30K) 45lb Manson Supreme with 80 ft of 3/8 BBB chain spliced to 150 ft of 5/8 3 strand nylon

The bridle is made up of a single line of Dacron 3/4 inch line with a alpine butterfly tied in middle with a shackle attached to a 1/2 inch dacron line which was tied directly with a klenheist knot to the chain. Did not have more than 80 feet of line out thus was not using any of the 3 strand line. Scope was about 5:1

Dacron does not stretch as much as nylon and normally under more severe conditions I would be attaching the bridle directly to the nylon rode which would provide the shock absorption. I like the idea of less stretch for the bridle where is passed through the hause to the cleats since the more stretch(the more heat) the more likely chafe will occur. I looked at the bridle when the wind gusts would hit and the line was not rubbing on the bob stay and the bow would pass from port to starboard with the strain going from one cleat to the other. I'm not even sure that the bridle dampens the "hunting" from side to side, but getting the load of the bow spirit surely has merit. On a Tayana there is a "rub rail" about 5 inches below the cap rail which protrudes under the bow cleat and it was this rail that the bridle was rubing and providing the noise! No evidence of chafing but under more severe conditions this could be a problem.

In the past I've used two seperate lines(1/2 nylon double braid) tied directly to the rode for the bridle and while that set up resulted in some rubbing on the bob stay, I did not get that god awful sound I recently experienced the other night.
Yes, I understand your wish to minimize chafe by using low stretch line; I am a climber from way back, and climbers ALWAYS use low stretch for the parts of anchor systems that will rub. That is the part of the system where a sailor uses chain. However, when I bought my boat the PO had a dacron bridle and it made loud rubbing noises, as you experienced.

During the next day's sailing I made a nylon bridle from some old dock lines I found on-board. No more problem. I added 2" tubular climbing webbing (REI.com) for chafe protection in the chocks later. I used this webbing on my last boat, and the bridle and dock lines BOTH lasted 17 years. The parts under the chafe gear were still fine, but the rest of the line was worn from sun.

I was surprised myself, at the difference in noise. Something in the way the dacron "grabs" as it stretches.
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