How to Connect Two Rodes

[thinwater]

I am speaking of 2 anchors deployed in a V or Bahamian pattern, the assumption being that only one rode will come over the roller, to avoid tangles when the boat spins.

I've done this with soft shackles and prusik loops. Both of which are secure in all directions and can be as strong as the chain. Other thoughts?

• Rolling hitch. Probably not. I would never use a single hitch; they are known to slip on occationally at high load. A double perhaps. But remember that the load will not be parallel to the chain and could be 90 degrees. I know of no testing of a rolling hitch at 90 degrees.
• Locking chain hook, like the Wichard or Mantus hooks. Not the usual application, but I can't see why it would not work. Some chain hooks weaken the chain.
• Shackle through a link. No. With HT chain it will not be nearly as strong as the chain.

Others?

[Panope]

Kong Stainless Steel Chain Gripper Shackles

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by Panope

Kong Stainless Steel Chain Gripper Shackles

It seems that these are essentially an enhanced chain hook, so how would you use them to connect multiple rodes? And why are they only sized for such small diameter lines?

[Panope]

Uncivilized, I've never used one of those, but using it plus another, standard shackle (or two) would be one way of creating a strong, secure, all-metal connection between two chains (one at mid-span).

I'm not sure what drove the designers to make the hole the size they did. Perhaps they intended ALL connections be made with a second shakle (and thimble for line).

Steve

[UNCIVILIZED]

Yes, I'd think that you'd need to use a couple of standard shackles with one of these Kong ones in order to get sufficient range of toggling. Which has me wondering if one of the shackles wouldn't then become the weak point?

Originally Posted by thinwater

I am speaking of 2 anchors deployed in a V or Bahamian pattern, the assumption being that only one rode will come over the roller, to avoid tangles when the boat spins.

Shackle through a link. No. With HT chain it will not be nearly as strong as the chain.
Others?

With 8mm G40/43 chain, you can use a shackle with a 1/2" (12mm) pin, which has a load rating that's stronger than the chain. And while I know that having the load from the chain pulling directly on this unsupported pin isn't the best practice, is it that much inferior to the strength of the chain in practice, & if so, why?

[Schooner Chandlery]

We had 3 anchors deployed in a Bahamian moor. The first anchor down was 1/2"bbb chain.

I had no idea how to secure the next bit--a 1" rode with an anchor on each end. I put a big bow shackle around the chain and line so they could move independent of each other. I rowed the two anchors out and to get 120deg between each I adjusted lengths of the rode to chain letting it move through the bow shackle. It was dead calm else I couldn't have done it this way.

When I have no idea I usually start seizing things...

Sitting in my rowboat, I used 3/8" line to seize the 1" rode to the 1/2" bbb chain above and below the shackle tightly so my rode would not chafe.

We were there over 6 weeks. It worked well.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[UNCIVILIZED]

I've seen two rodes led to a big bow shackle, with a 3rd line on the shackle's pin led to the bow roller. And I'd gather that any of the 3 could be chain if you like.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Others?

Master link into 2 x chain shorteners would be an option. Though maybe not a very good one......
The double chain grabs are very strong but you can't fit or remove them from chain with tension on it , though single grabs would also work. The industrial ones are rated though would rust a bit. Then you'd need sometjing to secure them. Any industrial crane rigging supplier should be able to make up something, maybe with a short chain between the master link and the chain grabs.
Might be nice to have onboard as an option, industrial kit is certainly plenty strong.

[thinwater]

Panope: Yes, that will work. I forgot about it. To me, the pin seems a little fiddly. I assume you attach it inside the roller?

Conachair, Uncivilized: No, a bow shack or large link is not an option; the rode is continuous to one of the anchors. You should be able to imagine that in practice, this is much simpler. The V is typically assymetrical, since this way the anchors cannot foul and because the 2 anchors probably do not match in holding power.

I think I need to clarify. Like this, where one of the rodes is continuous and the other is, in effect, spliced on.

An old blog post that explains.
https://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?bl...59583747188771

[conachair]

Originally Posted by thinwater

: No, a bow shack or large link is not an option; the rode is continuous to one of the anchors. You should be able to imagine that in practice, this is much simpler. The V is typically assymetrical, since this way the anchors cannot foul and because the 2 anchors probably do not match in holding power.
]

OK, see what you mean now. I'd still be tempted to go industrial, maybe a short chain with a grab each end but for a single hook as opposed to "two fingers grab" you'd probably need to figure out a way to make sure 100% can't jump and stick some dyneema in as a back up. . With the big long stainless shackle, if things get crazy and that somehow bends a little jamming on the chain then you're stuck with lots of chain which won't run over the windlass or might not fit down the hawse pipe. Industrial kit might need more care to stop too much rust but has the safety factor built in on top of the swl, you won't bend it.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by conachair

OK, see what you mean now. I'd still be tempted to go industrial, maybe a short chain with a grab each end but for a single hook as opposed to "two fingers grab" you'd probably need to figure out a way to make sure 100% can't jump and stick some dyneema in as a back up. . With the big long stainless shackle, if things get crazy and that somehow bends a little jamming on the chain then you're stuck with lots of chain which won't run over the windlass or might not fit down the hawse pipe. Industrial kit might need more care to stop too much rust but has the safety factor built in on top of the swl, you won't bend it.

Chain shortener hooks (what you show) are neat, but I don't believe any of the locking versions would hold up in seawater. Too bad.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Chain shortener hooks (what you show) are neat, but I don't believe any of the locking versions would hold up in seawater. Too bad.

Haven't ever seen any locks on shorteners, gunnebo might do something, dunno , so you'd need to make something up. They'd last in sea i think, presuming it would be a once in a while thing, just soak in a bit of phosphoric acid afterwards then oil to clean up.

I have seen industrial lifting equipment being severely mistreated on building sites all around the world and mostly standing up to it. Get really silly like 20t on a 5t swl shallow bridle then there's a big bang with a shaky crane and a shaky driver

So, IMHO , for something like this when things might one day get really hairy, personally I'd be looking for something that I knew would take the unexpected rather than something not stamped to a standard.

[uncle stinkybob]

Just buy the Mantus chain hook and be done with it. It's what it was made for.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by conachair

... So, IMHO , for something like this when things might one day get really hairy, personally I'd be looking for something that I knew would take the unexpected rather than something not stamped to a standard.

That is a solid point. So is the occasional use point; I only use 2 anchors a few times a year, when the bottom is pudding.

I'm not sure how strong it is as a side-attachment, as I practice. It is not tested or rated for that. This seems less relevant to the other methods.

There is also this approach, but no commercial source. Very strong, no corrosion risk.

[knockabout]

a stainless shackle or carabiner thin enough to go through the chain link is used all over the place to hold the weight of the boat on the snubber line in just about anything / if you use 2 shackles attached to a short piece of chain looping off your main line then attach your second chain to the centre of the small loop you have doubled the strength of your attachment / half metre length of chain for the loop / another way is to place an anchor on each end of a chain rode a strong anchor swivel shackled to the centre using the chain loop system then attach your anchor chain to the swivel / these can be buoyed off and left in place if you need to move quickly / it pays to have a third anchor on board if that happens - don't ask