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Old 20-03-2007, 16:48   #16
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GMac ever hear of Bucaneer Rope Co. They have an eight strand that is being sold for $0.15 / foot cheaper than Yale Nylon Brait. Defender .com is the company that is selling the 8 strand and the site says that it is built to military spec MIL-R_24337. Does this mean anything to anyone? Is it worth using this instead of the Yale Brait?
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Old 20-03-2007, 22:24   #17
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G'day Charlie,
Yes I've heard of Bucaneer but thats about it. Had a quick look at their site and I'm thinking they do manufacturer and have some interesting bits actually. I like the look of the textured polyester 8 braid, not sure what for but I'd like to have a play on some winches. I'd tend to think that being a US company the goodies will be good but bloody expensive to anyone outside the US like Yale, Samson and the rest. A lot of the ropes you pay $xx a foot for we sell for the same but for a metre. You should see some of the stunned looks we get from some US cruisers when they realise we're talking metres and they think they are paying per foot.

Just spent 2 days loading a container full of all the bits for a 60ft Cat. Going to France to be fitted to the hulls. They brought everything here and shipped it. Made quite a saving they say. Weirdly they even brought german compressors, italian chain, french fabrics, french made anchor, a pile of US rope and many other bits like that here and still saved money. That is bizzarre and I suppose what happens when you have a truely free market as we do here. All you lot with your subsidies for everyman and his dog does not seem to much for the average punter off the street. I digress...

The Yale is nice but far from what the advertise as new and exiting. 8 braids have been made and in use for many many years. I did giggle when they send out the "look what new idea we have come up with" news. As opposed to the usual way, it looks as if the Japanese have been making this for a long time and the US has just caught on to it.

Things like that Mil Spec number are quite commonly used but like microsoft error messages, nobody actually knows what they mean. Our like most military have shocking reliablity in most areas so I'm not sure if that is a good thing or not Quite often it just means they got something that worked well and them beefed it up to the point it'll never bust or work properly ever again. I'd not take the Mil Spec thing to seriously to be honest.

I'd have a go with the Bucaneer rope. Looks fine, use Du Pont fibres and they say the right things. If you can save a few bucks by buying a well made but not 'big name brand' rope I'm all for it. That's 5 dozen coldies (60) per 100mt (328ft) saving in our language and not to be sneezed at.

The hassle with some of the 8 braid (braits, octiplaits and so on) is that many look good but just don't work real flash on some anchor winches. We have trialed 15 or so over the years and only a couple work really well on all winches. If your not using an Auto rope to chain winch this is not an issue, just it maybe if you are. One of those ones you don't know until you've done it. We have yet to do that one.

Have a go charlie, I would.
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Old 21-03-2007, 10:11   #18
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Thanks GMac:

I think I'll have a go with Bucaneer.

Amazing free market world that we have. Drugs (I'm talking prescription not recreational) are ahuge difference. My inlaws go to Canada and Mexico to buy theirs. Zantac or Clairitin Same drug diffeerent language, US about $40 for 50 pills Mexico less than $10 for 100 pills. And all b/c Congress (w/o undue influence from big drug companies) wants to keep us safe.

One more question. I do not have an auto chain to rode windlas. I have always just pulled up the last twenty feet of chain by hand or had an all chain rode. MY thought on the change would be to use the Gypsy till I saw the chain then put the snubber on and switch from gypsy. Is there another way to do it? No use reinventing the wheel.
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Old 23-03-2007, 04:03   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie
Thanks GMac:

One more question. I do not have an auto chain to rode windlas. I have always just pulled up the last twenty feet of chain by hand or had an all chain rode. MY thought on the change would be to use the Gypsy till I saw the chain then put the snubber on and switch from gypsy. Is there another way to do it? No use reinventing the wheel.
When saying 'gypsy' do you mean the drum for rope or the pocketed wheel that takes the chain? Not quite clear enough to get a real good handle on that bit. We get alsorts of variations of winch part names at work so we have to be sure we are talking the same part as often we aren't. Like the rope. The US calls it Brait, the UK calls it Octiplait, we call it 8 Braid. Other not uncommon names are multiplait, square braid, that plaited stuff and a few more. Can be tricky at times

If you have the chain gypsy only I think the rope won't like that and it could get ugly. Experiment if you like but watch your fingers well.

If you have the drum only just keep pulling.

If you have the rope drum over the chain gypsy quite often you keep pulling in the rope and when the chain gets to the winch pull the rode down and the chain should drop in. I've seen people do it from in front of the winch and push the chain down with their feet.

If you have a horizontal winch with drum one side gyspy on the other the way you describe above is the best bet.

NOTE: These winches WILL munch body part easily. Use with caution. So will getting caught in the rope and/or chain.
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Old 23-03-2007, 04:31   #20
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Arrow

A gypsy is for rope, a wildcat is for chain. Technically speaking.

While being pedantic, "windlass" refers to horizontal... vertical windlasses are correctly termed capstans.

A-hah!
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Old 23-03-2007, 11:08   #21
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Thanks GMac. I didn't thnk to just push the chain down into the wildcat. I'll give that a try. Used to racing boats where you bring it up hand over hand.

Craig: Thanks for the proper names.
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Old 23-03-2007, 13:34   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsmith
A gypsy is for rope, a wildcat is for chain. Technically speaking.

While being pedantic, "windlass" refers to horizontal... vertical windlasses are correctly termed capstans.

A-hah!
Where did you get that from??
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Old 23-03-2007, 16:47   #23
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Great input on the terminology, Craig.

So what's the wildcat that takes rope between the chain teeth called?



Wildcat/Gypsy?
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Old 23-03-2007, 18:50   #24
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How much ground tackle to carry and what anchors to take is all a moot point until your in an anchorage durring a storm. At that point you will always wish you had more. I carry 400 feet of 3/8" chain and a 65lb Bruce on the stbd side and 100 feet of 3/8 chain and 400 feet of hemp with a 65lb CQR on the port side. Ill be looking for an even larger anchor and 600 feet of nylon with a traditional fisherman befor I go cruising. Formosa 51
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Old 23-03-2007, 18:57   #25
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Wow Jack Tar!!

Talking about over kill.

But, then again. It's better safe than sorry, right?
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Old 23-03-2007, 20:05   #26
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I'd wait to see where that terminology comes from.
It's the first time I've ever heard the capstan being called a gypsy.
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Old 23-03-2007, 21:40   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Tar
How much ground tackle to carry and what anchors to take is all a moot point until your in an anchorage durring a storm. At that point you will always wish you had more. I carry 400 feet of 3/8" chain and a 65lb Bruce on the stbd side and 100 feet of 3/8 chain and 400 feet of hemp with a 65lb CQR on the port side. Ill be looking for an even larger anchor and 600 feet of nylon with a traditional fisherman befor I go cruising. Formosa 51
You actually have 'hemp' rope aboard? Woww.. that's old school

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How much ground tackle to carry and what anchors to take is all a moot point until your in an anchorage durring a storm.
Not if you're on a yacht.
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Old 23-03-2007, 23:20   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Tar
How much ground tackle to carry and what anchors to take is all a moot point until your in an anchorage durring a storm.
Tell that to everyone who drags in relatively moderate conditions!

How much ground tackle and what anchors is hardly ever a "moot point".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Tar
At that point you will always wish you had more. I carry 400 feet of 3/8" chain and a 65lb Bruce on the stbd side and 100 feet of 3/8 chain and 400 feet of hemp with a 65lb CQR on the port side. Ill be looking for an even larger anchor and 600 feet of nylon with a traditional fisherman befor I go cruising.
Perhaps "more" is not the solution, but some other changes...
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Old 23-03-2007, 23:24   #29
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Originally Posted by ssullivan
Great input on the terminology, Craig.

So what's the wildcat that takes rope between the chain teeth called?

A wild gypsy.

No wait, a gypsy's cat.



I think the technical term is "combination rope/chain gypsy" but I suppose it should be "combination gypsy/wildcat".
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Old 24-03-2007, 15:01   #30
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Let me make myself clear. What I mean is with regards to how much. If you dont carry enough and a storm blows up your going to wish you had more. As for those who drag in a moderate blow all I can say is **** happens. Anchoring is like running aground. There are only two types of sailors those that have drug anchor and those that are going to. That said all you can try to do is be prepaired. One anchor out and one set to go. Another little tip. Get a bunch of those cheap boat knifes from West MArine. Put one on a lanyard and attach it at every point you might need one. Near the anchor windlas, near the main mast, near the mizzen. When your in trouble the last thing you want to do is fumble about for your knife. Get a cheap GPS. Set the Anchor drag alarm. Keep watch. There is nothing as exciting as waking up on the opposite side of the harbor that you set your anchor on.

On another note:
Im not going to expand on how I feel about someone making a comment about change if they are just a pond sailor. I have enough experiance under my belt to feel ok handling a 52,000 lb boat. How about you ?
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