Help with Anchor Windlass Installation on Adams 31'

[surfmachine]

Hi, bought the "dream boat" in langkawi a 31' Adams sloop, and on the second sail nearly grew a hernia winding in the 40m of 10mm chain and the 20Kg delta with a manual vertical windlass. I will install an electric windlass, and a chain stopper, but it must be located behind the anchor locker and there is no hawse pipe fitted, the chain just runs back across the deck to the anchor locker, bunches up in the back, and is drawn up across the top of the locker, so the lid must be opened whilst weighing or dropping anchor. Looks like the lid will have to modfied and some sort of haws pipe fitted?

Please, any suggestions about a better setup? I am in Australia now, (boxing day) and will return 8-1-10 to Langkawi and want to order the electric windlass from here before I go so that it can fitted when I arrive. I have been reading most of the posts on this subject and I must admit a fair degree of confusion.

The previous owner has a 20Kg delta stored on a small double anchor roller, on 45m of 10mm chain, and 80m of 22m nylon warp, plus another 2 large danforths, all in the one locker. It seems too large for the boat size, 5tonnes, but bigger is better with anchors? Most gypsys only handle rope up to 16mm, will I have to change the rope?

Thanks...... Keith

[James S]

I'm guessing you don’t have any pictures of the locker-hatch to show us?

[surfmachine]

Ahoy James. Just uploaded some from the video, showing the setup, thanks.
Keith

[swagman]

Hi Keith,
If I recall correctly the anchor locker on that Adams is relatively shallow so I suspect you'll get chain piling up wherever you feed it in. My suggestions would be to simply electrify the existing windlass (if they do such a modification) and allow it to feed in / out of the locker with doors open.
I agree the gear sounds OTT but guess that is one department oversized is not bad.
Nice boat. Well done.
JOHN

[surfmachine]

Ahoy John. Thankyou. That is good advice, I did not get the make or model of the windlass as I was only there for a few days checking it all out and only checked the anchoring on the last day. My guess is it is a muir, so I will do some more research. Any suggestion about modifying the hatch to allow me to keep it closed, with the chain tight over the top? Use a chain hawse pipe and where to locate the chain stopper?
Cheers.... Keith

[James S]

Hey Keith
Is the locker shallow as John says?

If so, a hawse pipe may just make it worse as far as pay out goes.

If you put one in it'll have to end high enough in the hatch for the chain to have enough clear drop to keep it taught on the wildcat while operating it.

If your Hawse pipe is fairly straight up and down, I think you need something like a foot of weight....but yours will be at an angle so it may need more.

Any chance of putting the windless inside the hatch..I'm thinking out loud here.

[surfmachine]

Thanks, I have not pulled all the rode out of the locker yet, plus the gear for all the other 2 anchors, I will though. Looking at the locker from the vberth, it appears to be 2.5 to 3' deep.

From what I am seeing on the net it looks simpler to cut part of the locker hatch and install the windlass on the starboard back inside of the locker, level with the deck, and let the chain and rope fall into there, if it is deep enough, and install a chain stopper somewhere in between the windlass and the back of the anchor on the roller. Maybe cut the hatch down parallel with the toe rail, and leave that part fixed for the rode to run in and out on, with a brass rubbing strip? So the hatch opening is a bit smaller.

I will hold off on ordering the windlass until I get back onboard in Rebak island, Langkawi.

It is certainly food for thought! The boat has great electrics and plenty of reserve amp capacity as well as ample charging from sun and wind, so an electric windlass should not be a problem and I will be solo most of the time.

[James S]

Your chain stopper can be very simple...mine is a bit of line secured on one end with a shackle on the other that is connected to the chain.

[surfmachine]

It turns out that the existing windlass is made by Muir, it is a manual one, takes 10mm short link chain. Does any one know if you can elctrify a Muir manual winch?
Thanks.... Keith.

[surfmachine]

Hi, I am back on my yacht, Adams 31', emptied out the anchor locker and it has a lot of 10mm short link chain, and 50metres of 22mm rope, shackled to the chain with a 75mm shackle that wont run through the gypsy. Anyway, the locker is piled up with chain on top of the rope and you have to feed the chain in by hand as you winch it in. The locker is a good 1metre deep, but with very angled sides, see attached pictures. I have ordered a lewmar 1000 vertical anchor windlass with a 10mm gypsy. I am thinking of ditching the 22mm rope and keeping the 10mm chain. what is the normal, and or minimal size of nylon rope for this type of boat, just under 5tonnes displacement FG. As I want to make as much room in the locker as possible.
Also, I need to join it to the chain so it will run through the gypsy.
I was thinking of removing the light fibreglass anchor hatch and installing a raised, fixed cover of heavy plywood and fixing the vertical winch through it, towards the rear of the hatch so that the chain fed out of the front of the gypsy into the deepest part of the hatch, or possibly only covering half of the locker and leaving the other half with a hinged cover.
Anyone got any advice about this from past experience?
Thanks, Keith on eloise.

[svHyLyte]

You might find the following thread commencing with post #22 helpful:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...es-3456-2.html

You might also find that adding 50' of chain and replacing the remainded of your 3-stand with an equal length of 12-strand plaited line of the same diameter will give you much more room in the anchor locker.

FWIW...

[Bright Eyes]

Great Thread! I've been trying to figure out where to put a windlass and it never occurred to me that I could run the chain past the well and then back in. Now i'm in the same situation as you with figuring out what to do with that pesky door.

One questions tho: Where is the back plating of your current windlass? Is it on the ceiling of the v-berth?

[Hydra]

Keith,
Regarding rope strength, standard ISO1140 says that the breaking strength of new, dry polyamide (Nylon) rope is at least:
16mm 51.9 kN or 5.2 t (11 432 lbs)
18mm 64.3 kN or 6,4 t (14 163 lbs)

Then, 16mm is strong enough to lift your boat out of the water. The breaking strength of 10mm chain is about 5 t. Then, 16mm rope would fit perfectly with your chain. To be on the safe side, taking some wear into account, you could select 18mm rope.

Of course, your anchor is probably not able to hold 5t of traction but the safe working load of rope and chain is considered about 1/3 of the breaking strength.

For ease of stowing, I suggest that you choose squareline/octoplait, that resists also better to chafing than 3-strand, even if it is more difficult to splice.

On the pics, your present rode looks like polypropylene rather than polyamide. Polypro floats, is cheaper and stiffer than polyamide but much less elastic. Then, it isn't recommended for anchoring.

Alain

[surfmachine]

Thanks Alain. Makes good sense to me! The existing rope is way too inflexible and bulky. Could I go smaller than 16mm? It seems that I wont be using the rope that much, up to now it has been only on the chain. I will have to look up how to do the rope to chain splice that will run through the windlass gypsy? Do uou have any links?

Bright eyes, Hi, the back plate for the existing manual windlass is under the vberth, a 12mm thick piece of stainless plate 12" X 8"!!!
I will remove the anchor hatch altogether and store it.
Cheers from Keith in Langkawi.

Thanks again Alain.

Keith

[Hydra]

Keith,
For your boat, I wouldn't recommend a rode less than 16mm in diameter. When I bought mine (30', about 3.5 t), I got 14mm rodes for both anchors and it didn't feel right, maybe because both rodes had seen a lot of use. I feel better after upgrading to 16mm and increasing the length from 20m to 50m (I have only 20m of chain on each anchor).

Depending on the area you are sailing, 40m of ground tackle might be frequently too short. For example, in the English Channel, the tide range frequently exceeds 12m. When anchoring in this area, I must have at least 15m of water at high tide to avoid hitting the bottom in wave troughs at low tide. Then, the 70m rode is barely enough and I add more length by bending a hawser to it.

Consider that you would need to use the rope for anchoring in gale or storm conditions. Then, it would have to withstand jerks from the pitching, heaving and yawing motions of your boat.

Regarding the splice between octoplait/squareline and chain, see for example BlueMoment - Articles

I would recommend that you keep the anchor hatch. It would be useful for protecting the rode from UV light. It could also prevent chain and rope from going over the side in case of heavy rolling. You could replace the hinges with something more handy.

I don't have a windlass. Then, to make it easier to bring the chain "up and down", I hoist the sails only after weighing anchor: when the anchor is on the bow roller, I hoist the jib and leave the anchorage. Then, I steer the boat close-hauled and hoist the mainsail.

Alain