Help with Anchor .... Is it the Same at West Marine ?

[stillbuilding]

Originally Posted by cwyckham

Well, my new Manson Boss 45 took forever to get here, but it finally arrived!!

I just test fitted it on the bowsprit of my Niagara 35. It fits! Finally, a new generation anchor that is available in North America and fits the bowsprit with no modifications.

Also note that the Boss is freaking huge. A 35 would be big enough for almost any purpose, I think, especially coastal sailing. For big wind and offshore, the 45 will be nice, but it's probably overkill. I was amazed it fit.

I understand the initial visual impact. Comes with the newer designs that push surface area rather than pure mass. My builders nearly fell over when confronting a 240 lb Supreme. It fits but cannot mount two on the stemhead. Second anchor has to live further aft on a cathead.

[Jim Cate]

Wow, that IS big! I think that any of us experts can see that if you can get that bugger dug in it will have immense holding power. Do give us a reprise after you have used it for a while.

Cheers,

Jim

[Chuck Hawley]

Originally Posted by cwyckham

Well, my new Manson Boss 45 took forever to get here, but it finally arrived!!

I just test fitted it on the bowsprit of my Niagara 35. It fits! Finally, a new generation anchor that is available in North America and fits the bowsprit with no modifications.

I would have loved to have had a Manson Supreme, but the roll bar means needing to modify the bowsprit to have the roller on the end. I didn't really like that option, though it is workable. I'd rather have the anchor tucked away and easier to get at.

The Boss is more expensive, but the new bow roller for the Supreme isn't free. It works out to a bit less for the Boss, I think.

Also note that the Boss is freaking huge. A 35 would be big enough for almost any purpose, I think, especially coastal sailing. For big wind and offshore, the 45 will be nice, but it's probably overkill. I was amazed it fit.

I haven't tried actually using it yet, but I'm confident it'll do the trick far better than my old 35# CQR did. Check out the comparison picture of the two anchors side by side.

I just received a SS Boss 10# anchor for my Alerion 38 Yawl (yes, I know it's too small, but it has to fit in the on-deck locker) and I already have a galvanized 15# Supreme. The Boss seems large by comparison due to the efficient use of materials. I'll do a comparison video on them soon, but in the meantime, I am tempted to make a trophy out of the Boss because it is so beautifully made and polished. Since I don't have a windlass, and do have to contend with deep water in California, I am looking to have a single, weight-efficient anchor that will work with perhaps 25' of chain and a long shot of 3-strand nylon.

[Jbaffoh]

Originally Posted by Chuck Hawley

I just received a SS Boss 10# anchor for my Alerion 38 Yawl (yes, I know it's too small, but it has to fit in the on-deck locker) and I already have a galvanized 15# Supreme. The Boss seems large by comparison due to the efficient use of materials. I'll do a comparison video on them soon, but in the meantime, I am tempted to make a trophy out of the Boss because it is so beautifully made and polished. Since I don't have a windlass, and do have to contend with deep water in California, I am looking to have a single, weight-efficient anchor that will work with perhaps 25' of chain and a long shot of 3-strand nylon.

I'd like to hear how those work. I read about these people anchoring in 10-20 feet of water, and it makes little sense to me. Here in So Cal, 20 feet is only 5 feet off the rocks!!! So 100 feet is a far more realistic anchoring depth, and 800 feet of rode is the norm. I have no windlass. All chain is NOT an option.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by stillbuilding

My builders nearly fell over

I felt the same with my 125 lber and just swapped it for a 100lber
An 80lber would have been more than enough

when confronting a 240 lb Supreme

You win, I thought I had a big one

[Chuck Hawley]

Originally Posted by Jbaffoh

I'd like to hear how those work. I read about these people anchoring in 10-20 feet of water, and it makes little sense to me. Here in So Cal, 20 feet is only 5 feet off the rocks!!! So 100 feet is a far more realistic anchoring depth, and 800 feet of rode is the norm. I have no windlass. All chain is NOT an option.

In the areas where I have anchored, it seems like being prepared for 30-40 foot depths with 200'+ of combination rode is a good compromise. That has served me well from the Sacramento Delta to the Channel Islands to Baja to Hawaii. If I really get into deep water, I'll bend two anchor lines together, but this obviously isn't optimal.

It might be interesting to ask the question: if you had to anchor in 30', and could only "afford" 60# of total anchor and rode, what would you choose? 5/16" chain adds weight to the system in a hurry (1.1# per foot), as does the selection of a 35# anchor, as does the selection of 5/8" nylon. Life is a trade-off. What would your optimized solution be?

[memelet]

Cyckham, would you post a closeup of your welds. On my 60 they look quite sloppy. I sent Manson pictures and they said the welding was just fine. I'll post my website for comparison. Thank!

[JonJo]

Originally Posted by Chuck Hawley

In the areas where I have anchored, it seems like being prepared for 30-40 foot depths with 200'+ of combination rode is a good compromise. That has served me well from the Sacramento Delta to the Channel Islands to Baja to Hawaii. If I really get into deep water, I'll bend two anchor lines together, but this obviously isn't optimal.

It might be interesting to ask the question: if you had to anchor in 30', and could only "afford" 60# of total anchor and rode, what would you choose? 5/16" chain adds weight to the system in a hurry (1.1# per foot), as does the selection of a 35# anchor, as does the selection of 5/8" nylon. Life is a trade-off. What would your optimized solution be?

Sorry but my reply will be mostly metric, we have a 11.5m cat and carry 50m of 8mm chain and 16kg anchor (Anchor Right Excel) but have a Fortress FX23 and an alloy Excel (both around 7kg) as back-up. The alloy Spade also works a treat. We carry another 30m of chain and 40m of nylon (spliced together). We often anchor in 10m and our 50m is adequate for mild conditions. If its going to blow, we go somewhere else (obviously we can anchor in fairly shallow water and have options not avaialable to monos). We need all chain because coral will eat nylon overnight.

We like the alloys as we can deploy the gal anchor conventionally and set the alloy from a dinghy - at roughly 90 degrees. We have found that max loads are developed by the yacht moving side to side and back and forward - rather than the wind generating load directly - and good snubbers are a major advantage. The 90 degree set up reduces swinging and dropping an anchor off the bow so it simply sits under the bow (but as we are a cat dropped on a bridle between the transoms is ideal) and acts as a brake. So the latter needs sit on the bottom, but just, its not a kellet (too fidly) simply a friction brake and only used as a last resort.

We have sat out consistent 35 knots gusting to 45 knots quite comfortably (but not in 10m!), 4m - 6m. So it works but you do need lots of room.

However the key to it all is the anchor - we would not do, I do not think be able to do, any of this with an older style. The Excel, Fortress and Spade all have excellent and reliable holding capacity. Between them they work in most seabeds (kelp is the downfall of any anchor we have tried) and having some alloy keeps weights manageable. We have found good snubbers critical. I cannot imagine trying to set a 20kg+ (and then plus its chain) second anchor if kept in a locker - though if desperate I understand weight is no longer an issue!

[cwyckham]

Originally Posted by memelet

Cyckham, would you post a closeup of your welds. On my 60 they look quite sloppy. I sent Manson pictures and they said the welding was just fine. I'll post my website for comparison. Thank!

I didn't get a chance to take any pictures, but I had a look and the weld quality seemed good. Some splatter on the inside of the "ears" perhaps, though that maybe from the galvanizing? Either way, nothing that concerns me.

I think the weld would have to be pretty bad to compromise the anchor. It's an anchor, so no need to grind the welds down to be pretty (which just weakens them, anyways). If you post the pictures, some welding experts on the board could probably weigh in. I'm no expert myself.

[cwyckham]

Just got back from 11 days in Desolation Sound, anchoring every night (great place, by the way). The Manson Boss did great. We love it.

Once set, we could back down on it at 3000 rpms and it wouldn't budge. We had two times when it didn't set immediately. Once it dragged about a boat length before suddenly grabbing. The other time it seemed to be bouncing off rocks and we ended up trying again and it held in roughly the same spot.

Very happy with our choice, though it hasn't had to hold us in a big blow yet, we're pretty convinced that our aggressive setting means it will do just fine.

I'm a little curious about its behaviour when it ends up upside down initially. Anybody found any videos yet?

[JonJo]

Originally Posted by cwyckham

Just got back from 11 days in Desolation Sound, anchoring every night (great place, by the way). The Manson Boss did great. We love it.

Once set, we could back down on it at 3000 rpms and it wouldn't budge. We had two times when it didn't set immediately. Once it dragged about a boat length before suddenly grabbing. The other time it seemed to be bouncing off rocks and we ended up trying again and it held in roughly the same spot.

Very happy with our choice, though it hasn't had to hold us in a big blow yet, we're pretty convinced that our aggressive setting means it will do just fine.

I'm a little curious about its behaviour when it ends up upside down initially. Anybody found any videos yet?

Hi Cwyckam,

Interesting stuff! 3,000 revs is pretty hefty - it it holds that it sounds OK. What's your normal practice, are you setting on a short or long scope? And if setting on a short scope - have you tried a long scope, as that's the scope the anchor needs to deal with at a change of wind or tide. Vids, need wait for Chuck I suspect, though whether he arranges it to be tested from upside down?

[cwyckham]

Originally Posted by JonJo

Hi Cwyckam,

Interesting stuff! 3,000 revs is pretty hefty - it it holds that it sounds OK. What's your normal practice, are you setting on a short or long scope? And if setting on a short scope - have you tried a long scope, as that's the scope the anchor needs to deal with at a change of wind or tide. Vids, need wait for Chuck I suspect, though whether he arranges it to be tested from upside down?

Yeah, most people I see anchoring in these parts don't really back down on the anchor at all. They just sort of let the boat's momentum bounce off it and leave it at that. We get some strange looks, but we sleep well. Ok, not really. We still worry about swing, but we don't worry about dragging anymore.

We set at the full scope that we're putting out, usually between 3 and 5 to 1 depending on how tight the anchorage is and what the forecast is. We spend a great deal of time in tight, crowded anchorages.

[JonJo]

Tight anchorages - tell us about it! That's when having a reliable anchor is a real bonus.

Don't worry about the odd looks, we do as you do, and we reverse up with 2 engines at 3,000 revs! I know someone else who runs forward to sit over the enchor and then reverses flat chat - I've never had that courage!

[redsky49]

If you look closely at this pic you will see the fitment issue with these anchor types.

The curve of the shank (particularly the multiple inside curves where the shank makes its connection to the body of the anchor and where it rests against the roller), combined with the pull of the windlass as determined by the placement of the chain shackle, prevents the anchor from being pulled into a secure position on the bow roller.

In this particular case, there is no way to prevent upward movement of the anchor, despite the anchor being pulled tight into the roller. Imagine the bow heaving in a seaway. Imagine also the anchor lifting off the roller 6-8" every time a wave is encountered, until the anchor launches itself off the roller. If you are facing green water over the bow, you are going to have a significant problem on your hands!

In addition, there is no way to readily lash the anchor down without drilling your own tie down points on the anchor shaft.

I am thinking that a straight shaft, as opposed to the scimitar-like curved shaft of the Manson and Rocna, would be the most efficient - both from an engineering standpoint, as well as a manufacturing efficiency.

With all the posters who have had difficulty fitting these new anchors, why has the shaft, rather than the roll bar, not come under greater scrutiny?

[cwyckham]

Originally Posted by redsky49

If you look closely at this pic you will see the fitment issue with these anchor types.

The curve of the shank (particularly the multiple inside curves where the shank makes its connection to the body of the anchor and where it rests against the roller), combined with the pull of the windlass as determined by the placement of the chain shackle, prevents the anchor from being pulled into a secure position on the bow roller.

In this particular case, there is no way to prevent upward movement of the anchor, despite the anchor being pulled tight into the roller. Imagine the bow heaving in a seaway. Imagine also the anchor lifting off the roller 6-8" every time a wave is encountered, until the anchor launches itself off the roller. If you are facing green water over the bow, you are going to have a significant problem on your hands!

In addition, there is no way to readily lash the anchor down without drilling your own tie down points on the anchor shaft.

I am thinking that a straight shaft, as opposed to the scimitar-like curved shaft of the Manson and Rocna, would be the most efficient - both from an engineering standpoint, as well as a manufacturing efficiency.

With all the posters who have had difficulty fitting these new anchors, why has the shaft, rather than the roll bar, not come under greater scrutiny?

Totally agree. I got lucky, though. There are two small holes near the "ears" in the Boss. I tie one of them up to the bowsprit, which cocks the ancor over hard against the bobstay (which is protected by some hose). It's pretty secure. But it wouldn't be if I didn't have a bowsprit to tie to.