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19-07-2013, 19:46
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Townsville, Qld, Australia
Boat: William Bollard, Gypsy Wave, 28'
Posts: 144
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Gypsy and Chain Calibration
Hi there,
I have just bought a new gypsy for my anchor winch, and the gypsy states that it needs a chain calibrated to Din 766.
In the location that i live getting that chain is not easy and the closest chain that i can get is close to the size but not exact.
example: my gypsy needs 8 mm short link Din 766 with an internal length of 24 mm and an external width of 27.2 mm
the closest chain size that i can get is off by about 0.2mm "if i remember correctly" is size is an internal of 23.8 mm and an external width of 27 mm
for me to get the calibrated chain is going to cost me over double just for the chain and then a whole lot more for the shipping to get it to where i am
what do the more experienced people here know about this type of problem, the difference in sizes, and which of these chains i should get.
thanks in advance for any info given,
Matthew
__________________
Do but once what others say you cant, and you will never be judged by their limitations again.
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19-07-2013, 22:03
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Southern California
Posts: 588
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Re: Gypsy and Chain Calibration
Quote:
Originally Posted by resilientg
Hi there,
I have just bought a new gypsy for my anchor winch, and the gypsy states that it needs a chain calibrated to Din 766.
In the location that i live getting that chain is not easy and the closest chain that i can get is close to the size but not exact.
example: my gypsy needs 8 mm short link Din 766 with an internal length of 24 mm and an external width of 27.2 mm
the closest chain size that i can get is off by about 0.2mm "if i remember correctly" is size is an internal of 23.8 mm and an external width of 27 mm
for me to get the calibrated chain is going to cost me over double just for the chain and then a whole lot more for the shipping to get it to where i am
what do the more experienced people here know about this type of problem, the difference in sizes, and which of these chains i should get.
thanks in advance for any info given,
Matthew
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What can happen is you will haul up three links of chain, then slip two back into the water. The chain will twist, and you will end up with ugly hockles in your chain locker. When you pay out anchor they will jam, and you don't want that!
Lay your anchor chain over the wildcat. If there is a mismatch, you've got a problem.
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19-07-2013, 22:41
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Townsville, Qld, Australia
Boat: William Bollard, Gypsy Wave, 28'
Posts: 144
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Re: Gypsy and Chain Calibration
Ryon,
may i ask is that an answer from experience or just a guess ?
As to me to haul up three links of chain, then slip two back doesnt seem logical when the total size difference is less than a millimeter over that amount of links?
Matthew
__________________
Do but once what others say you cant, and you will never be judged by their limitations again.
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20-07-2013, 01:38
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#4
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Boat: Bestevaer.
Posts: 14,678
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Re: Gypsy and Chain Calibration
Some gypsys are very tolerant of chain that is not within their specifications. Slightly smaller links for example just recess in a bit more towards the centre of the gypsy and it all works fine.
However others are intolerant and the chain will jump out. If you are in deep water by this stage the uncontrolled drop is quite frightening.
The best solution is take a small sample of the chain a wrap it around the gypsy. The difference between a good and poor fit it reasonably obvious.
Publish a photo on the forum if you are unsure
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20-07-2013, 02:56
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Townsville, Qld, Australia
Boat: William Bollard, Gypsy Wave, 28'
Posts: 144
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Re: Gypsy and Chain Calibration
Noelex 77,
Thanks for the reply.
The gypsy that i have looks like it will allow for the links to sit a little higher or lower if there was some slight variance in chain size.
And yes i was going to take the gypsy to the chain suppliers, but that in itself presents a problem.
Its easy to wrap some chain around the gypsy and see the fit, but that only shows the fit over a few links.
Im sort of wondering as the chain size is slightly different, then over greater distances when hauling it what would the side affects be.
I dont want the chain to slip thats for sure,
as for a picture, i attached two if it helps, and winch is a Vetus Alexander III
Thanks
Matthew
__________________
Do but once what others say you cant, and you will never be judged by their limitations again.
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20-07-2013, 03:14
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#6
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Boat: Bestevaer.
Posts: 14,678
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Re: Gypsy and Chain Calibration
Quote:
Originally Posted by resilientg
Its easy to wrap some chain around the gypsy and see the fit, but that only shows the fit over a few links.
/
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If it fits well when wrapped 360 degrees around the gypsy it will be fine.
BTW 8 mm Din766 is 26mm wide.
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20-07-2013, 03:29
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Townsville, Qld, Australia
Boat: William Bollard, Gypsy Wave, 28'
Posts: 144
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Re: Gypsy and Chain Calibration
Quote:
Originally Posted by noelex 77
BTW 8 mm Din766 is 26mm wide.
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Hmmm, according to the literature that came with the gypsy direct from vetus they show the width as 27.2mm and the length and the length as 24mm?
Matthew
__________________
Do but once what others say you cant, and you will never be judged by their limitations again.
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20-07-2013, 03:39
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#8
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Boat: Bestevaer.
Posts: 14,678
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Re: Gypsy and Chain Calibration
Din 766 chain 8mm should have pitch of 24mm so the overall length should be 24+ (2x8)=40mm
Outside width should be 26mm
There are two seperate Din 766 standards for 10mm chain, but only one for 8mm so all Din 766 8mm chain should be the same.
I am not sure why the winch manufacturer would specify something different but call it Din 766 !!
A good reference on Gypsy / chain here:
Calibrated Anchor Chain General information
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20-07-2013, 05:56
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: www.peterpowell.ca
Posts: 128
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Re: Gypsy and Chain Calibration
I bought a new Lofrans windlass in Papeete, Tahiti (much cheaper than in USA because it's made in Italy and being sort of politically French, Tahiti is part of EU somehow).
My chain was 5/16ths and the gypsy was 8 mm. On a vernier caliper they match, to my eye. We (the shop owner and I) tried my chain and he thought it 'might work' but he gave me a free, new 10 mm gypsy he had hanging around the shop just in case and told me to buy 10 mm chain when I had the chance.
The 5/16ths chain would work about 50% of the time, then skip. You had to put your foot on the chain as it rode over the gypsy to reduce, not eliminate, the skipping. Very annoying and potentially dangerous when de-anchoring in a tight anchorage with many neighboring boats.
Finally found a chain man in Thailand and he was also an mechanical engineer. He had the most stock of chain in Thailand so we tried both types of DIN 766 10 mm chain that he had and sure enough, only one would work properly. I bought 80 m of it, installed the 10 mm gypsy and have no problems with skipping since. I bought a new, larger anchor (Australian knock-off Bruce--you cannot buy a new, REAL Bruce anywhere I've been and I've been from Chile to Argentina, the long way round) as well as I bent the shank on previous model (knock-off Bruce---I think Chinese made and not drop-forged) somewhere, somehow. If you can bend your anchor, it's not big enough/strong enough for your boat.
Pete
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'Soul Upon the Ocean'
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20-07-2013, 17:24
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Southern California
Posts: 588
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Re: Gypsy and Chain Calibration
Quote:
Originally Posted by resilientg
Ryon,
may i ask is that an answer from experience or just a guess ?
As to me to haul up three links of chain, then slip two back doesnt seem logical when the total size difference is less than a millimeter over that amount of links?
Matthew
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That would be experiece, Matthew, and you can check my bona fides on my profile page and the photos in my album. I think you should recognize some of the tallships that I crew.
To be specific, it would be six seasons aboard the Brig Pilgrim with an oversized chain on an undersized wildcat (the gypsy is the spool for line, the wildcat is the spool for chain). It takes four crew cranking the windlass to bring up Pilgrim's 645# anchor, and three shots of chain. That's four at one time, and we change out often.
You might imagine the shudder this sends thru the ship every time the chain jumps just inches from our feet, and we have to crank those lost links back up again. Forty or fifty jumps per haul, forty of fifty twists in the chain, and that means a lot of extra work for a tired crew.
What happens in the chain locker is even worse. Those links weigh about five pounds apiece, and you have to work those #@&*!! hockles out of the chain before you can drop anchor again, otherwise you could tear a hole thru the deck and possibly carry away the windlass. I have a photo of myself down in the chain locker working out a hockle about the size of a Chevy smallblock.
Last year we got some proper sized chain, and made an idler, and everything works fine now. Except we still have to haul it all up by hand.
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20-07-2013, 17:38
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#11
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CF Adviser
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
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Re: Gypsy and Chain Calibration
An easy solution here would be to purchase one meter of the chain you hope to use, and look at how it sits on the gypsy.
Ryon is right about how mismatched gypsy/chain combinations can be dangerous. Twice now I've seen them do exactly as he described, once on a charter boat where the owner didn't want to risk his good chain so he swapped it out for some hardware-store stuff, and once on a friend's boat who didn't know any better.
Something to consider: most winch manufacturers can provide a different gypsy for any given winch. In my experience, this doesn't usually cost a whole lot. The bottom line is that you should be having this conversation with your winch manufacturer's customer service department. They probably deal with such questions every day.
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
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20-07-2013, 18:15
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Avalon, NJ
Boat: Albin 40 double cabin Trawler
Posts: 1,886
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Re: Gypsy and Chain Calibration
I have a Vetus Alexander , a little older, but having just bought a new gypsy...they are the same through the years.
The PO had 5/16 chain on the 10mm gypsy and after bringing the boat home I found the chain to be in bad shape....so I replaced it with new 5/16 BBB. On my 4 month winter trip the chain was totally unmanageable and I was beside myself till I pulled the gypsy and saw that it was 10mm and not 8mm.
So I bought an 8mm gypsy and the 5/16 chain works as advertised now...
Anyone need a 10mm gypsy?
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21-07-2013, 06:00
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Asheville N.C.
Boat: Prairie32
Posts: 19
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Re: Gypsy and Chain Calibration
I am also in the process of deciding Wether or not to swap out gypsies ,or calibrate the chian to the existing one.Haven't taken the gypsy off yet but hope to find some identifying marks when I do.
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