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Old 16-02-2016, 08:51   #31
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Location: Wandering the US Gulf Coast
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Re: Ground tackle specification overlap

The bridle is 3/4" and only 10', so only 5' to the hook. Obviously there is no real stretch with a large stubby snubby like this. And goes against best practices as stated by others. That's why I posted for some feedback on this.

For some reason I don't feel a bad jerk from lack of stretch but maybe I need to use a longer smaller snubber to learn the feel of that. Maybe my oversize chain's weight is a benefit, but in those winds I'm guessing it was lifted and tight. Just a year of experience with all chain.

Comfortable is relative I guess, but the boat was pitching considerably and bow going under sometimes. Some breaking waves hit bow on and some on port or starboard if I had sailed off. Pretty good thumps then. Wild ride, but never really considered the hook would pop out with 10:1 in good dense mud and shell mix. Had to use the engine to weigh anchor just before sunrise to move out farther in the bay. Wanted a little distance to the others for round two coming in.

The 25 is at the upper end of the range of boat length recommended. So I'm not up one size. The 35 is huge looking for my size boat, no biggie, but hauling by hand and price difference factored in.

Could be that with the new designs going up one size is not as needed, but would not hurt of course if it can be carried well.

One thing for sure, having confidence in your tackle helps relieve the anxiety of el Nino weather events. I'd sleep through it if it weren't for the other boats around on bad gear and no one aboard.
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Old 16-02-2016, 15:05   #32
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Re: Ground tackle specification overlap

Quote:
Originally Posted by four winds View Post
The bridle is 3/4" and only 10', so only 5' to the hook. Obviously there is no real stretch with a large stubby snubby like this. And goes against best practices as stated by others. That's why I posted for some feedback on this.

For some reason I don't feel a bad jerk from lack of stretch but maybe I need to use a longer smaller snubber to learn the feel of that. Maybe my oversize chain's weight is a benefit, but in those winds I'm guessing it was lifted and tight. Just a year of experience with all chain.

Comfortable is relative I guess, but the boat was pitching considerably and bow going under sometimes. Some breaking waves hit bow on and some on port or starboard if I had sailed off. Pretty good thumps then. Wild ride, but never really considered the hook would pop out with 10:1 in good dense mud and shell mix. Had to use the engine to weigh anchor just before sunrise to move out farther in the bay. Wanted a little distance to the others for round two coming in.

The 25 is at the upper end of the range of boat length recommended. So I'm not up one size. The 35 is huge looking for my size boat, no biggie, but hauling by hand and price difference factored in.

Could be that with the new designs going up one size is not as needed, but would not hurt of course if it can be carried well.

One thing for sure, having confidence in your tackle helps relieve the anxiety of el Nino weather events. I'd sleep through it if it weren't for the other boats around on bad gear and no one aboard.
I just found a very interesting analysis of the design for chain snubbers.

Anchor Chain Snubber Design

I'll just post the Summary and Conclusions, with the additions from experience, the rest of it is worth a read though.

SUMMARY AND CONCLUSIONS
"1. Stretch is a function of line length, line size and the force applied. The amount of stretch required to do a good job of snubbing is the big gaping hole in this analysis. But you can choose length based on experience and what feels right. I will go with 4 feet of stretch. Maybe more is needed for the higher wind ranges, I don’t know. Does anyone else have a handle on this?
2. One snubber does not fit all. Three or more snubbers are needed. I will use 1/2" line for (expected) gusts of wind from 15 to 29 knots, 5/8” to 37 kn, 3/4" to 43 kn, and two 3/4" lines for over 43 kn gusts.
3. If the SWL is not to be exceeded, then the amount of stretch needs to be physically restrained by a loop of chain of the appropriate length.
4. I think that if the expected wind is higher than 43 kn., I will use two 3/4 inch snubbers and leave extra length in the chain of the snubber loop, ie not let it bottom out.
5. I think I will also use rubber snubbers like Falcon Line-Master ompensators (p574 of the West Marine catalog). This is intended to enhance the snubbing effect in the lower end of the snubber’s wind range.
6. A boat will move back about one boat length max when all of the slack of the chain is taken out by wind, current, or wave forces.
7. The chain alone should provide sufficient snubbing in winds up to 20 kn., if you have a K39 and 3/8” high test chain or the equal. (Experience has shown that 15 to 18 knots is a better number.)
8. If you need more snubbing in winds less than 20 kn., let out more chain.

p.s.: Experience has shown that I can use the 5/8" line over 95% of the time, from 15 to 37 knots of wind. And I only need to use about 6 to 10 feet of the line. The rest I use to secure the loose loop of chain so it won't rub against the boat. However, if I ever have to anchor off of a lee shore in a blow, I will use the full 25 feet of the snubber." NK 1-27-07

It was noted that stretch that exceeds the SWL, ruins the stretch of the rope from then on.

I agree 100% with you about having confidence in your ground tackle Four Winds.
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Old 25-02-2016, 04:06   #33
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Re: Ground tackle specification overlap

quote from post 23
<<I know of situations where an owner has a moderate sized anchor as a main bower and a large "storm anchor" as a reserve. The storm anchor often does not get deployed because the weather occurs quickly and it is extremely difficult to deploy once the "stuff" starts. Better to have the main bower as an anchor you can rely on for these situations.>>

from post 32 <<One snubber does not fit all. Three or more snubbers are needed.>>

Sailing in the North sea (Europe), the English channel and the Irish sea, I say keep it simple, strong and efficient. The most important thing is PRACTICE in different situations, holding grounds, etc. because when it really blows, with big waves, it is too late to 'play' with various changes, and very dangerous !
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