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Old 03-07-2011, 09:27   #16
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Re: Getting Chain into the Bilge

Whilst not a handy shape, how about one of those 5 gallon (20litre) plastic containers chemicals come in with an air tight seal. glue a piece of string to the inside of the cap and tie the end of the chain to it. If the chain is clean and dry it will stay that way.

However, I do question why you want so much chain on board. We have 100ft of 5/16th (31 ft yacht) with another 60 ft of rope to that if needed, to keep the weight down particularly in the bow. The second anchor has a 30 ft length and a huge length of rope but lives in the cabin away from the ends of the boat.

Sell the extra and buy a manual windlass. Yes in calm conditions I can lift 100ft of 5/16 and a 22 lb anchor but not in strong winds or tides when the windlass really is needed.

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Old 03-07-2011, 09:36   #17
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Re: Getting Chain into the Bilge

I agree with the other posters who recommend keeping the longest length easily accessible.

I find my huge length of chain - 100 meters (330 feet) - gives great peace of mind. Some other post today told a story of a 65 knot squall. In that I can just run out more and more chain till I close up to be boat behind.

Shallow water may not be good holding, say if the sand is hard and the pick pops out. But laying out extra chain will get that anchor set again where rope rode may not.

Lots of chain can't ever hurt.

OK, it can hurt your back pulling it in by hand

It also gives the ability to anchor deep if need be. My max depth I'll anchor is 23 meters. Thats when the windlass starts to work a bit hard on a straight pull up. 75 feet deep water may sound ridiculous, but here's plenty places where thats what we've been in. Including the British Virgin Islands where the moorings take all the shallow areas.





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Old 03-07-2011, 09:48   #18
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Re: Getting Chain into the Bilge

I'd keep it in one piece. Maybe coat it with CRC SP-400 or Cosmoline.
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Old 08-01-2012, 20:13   #19
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Re: Getting Chain into the Bilge

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Originally Posted by JonathanSail View Post
Thanks for your reasonable and helpful response Gmac.

The maxwell looks like a nice windlass and would fit on the small foredeck of my boat much better than the horizontal manuals that I've looked at. The main drawback for an electric like that is the long wire runs and associated installation hassles vs. bolting on a manual but the small size and light weight is very appealing. I'll also be single-handing most of the time and having a switch for the windlass in the cockpit is really appealing. With my tackle I can still pull up by hand if power fails or the windlass isn't working too.

It's a hard decision to make with the boat on the hard and ground tackle that I've not used yet and the fact that I've not sailed this boat before is a big part of my preference to go without a windlass at this point. It seems like an easy item to install in the water too and I'm trying to focus on getting there vs. working on this boat forever. ha ha.. In the past pulling up ground tackle without a windlass has never been a problem but there was less anchor, chain and boat involved.

The other suggestions are good too and will definitely be factored in as I work out my ground tackle setup.

Jonathan
Consider where you are. If you're on the East Coast 20' is deep. If you're on the west coast 20' is ashore. I was around New Bern area for awhile and never used a full 100' of chain. Twas all 10' deep or so.
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Old 09-01-2012, 15:13   #20
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Re: Getting Chain into the Bilge

You have a 28' boat and you intend to cruise the US east coast and the Bahamas? Keep 50' of chain (and the appropriate amount of rope) for each anchor and sell or store the rest.
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Old 14-01-2012, 01:04   #21
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Re: Getting Chain into the Bilge

Jonathan, my first cruising boat was 26 foot with 180 foot of 5/16 prooftest and a 25 pound CQR. After a couple of trips up and down the Calif coast , I gave up and bought a windlass. I was young and fit but it was a killer in the deeper anchorages. This might seem like overkill for that size boat, but I slept very well in almost any condition. My next 2 boats I anchored with 50/60 foot of chain and the rest nylon, and I never trusted it as well. For a single hander, your suggestion of a low profile electric windlass with controls in the cockpit is the cats meow. Some electrics even have the option of manual back up with a normal winch handle____Good Luck,____Grant.
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Old 14-01-2012, 06:41   #22
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Re: Getting Chain into the Bilge

For what it's worth, I've had my Catalina 30 for 30 years and sailed and anchored 'everywhere' between San Diego and San Francisco (in some very exposed anchorages.) I have 60 feet of 5/8 chain and 400 feet of line on my primary anchor and I have never dragged . . . take that back . . . I have dragged a couple of times when I didn't pay attention to anchoring properly. I added a manual horizontal windlass about 15 years ago after having 60 feet of chain and 30 pounds of anchor hanging straight down. Bringing that up hand over hand was not easy nor quick. The thing about having a windlass (especially an electric one) is that you won't think twice about re-anchoring if, after getting it down, you're not 100% happy with the set. If you have to pull it up hand over hand, you'll be more tempted to compromise with a bad set. That said, make sure you can manually operate your windlass in case of an electrical failure. We're planning a long cruise in a few years and I'm going to install an electric windlass - yes the electrical run is long and expensive but I think it's going to be worth it in the long run.
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Old 14-01-2012, 07:29   #23
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Re: Getting Chain into the Bilge

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Originally Posted by 1CaptainRon View Post
For what it's worth, I've had my Catalina 30 for 30 years and sailed and anchored 'everywhere' between San Diego and San Francisco (in some very exposed anchorages.) I have 60 feet of 5/8 chain and 400 feet of line on my primary anchor and I have never dragged . . .
I can believe you never dragged a 30' boat when using 5/8" chain!

ciao!
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Old 14-01-2012, 09:15   #24
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Re: Getting Chain into the Bilge

Thanks for all of the responses. It's very helpful to hear from folks with so much experience.

I've made a bit of progress towards the setup that I think will be best. The main thing that I've done is sold off 100 feet of chain. I've currently got 150 feet of the 1/4" g4 in the bow. This is probably 50 to 75 feet more than I feel like I need on the East coast so if the chance comes I'll probably unload a little more of it but don't mind having some extra either. I've kept two 45' pieces of chain that I plan to use for secondary anchors, bahamian moors, rode extending, backups etc. These I can store near the keel so the extra weight is less of an issue than in the bow. They are also pretty easy to handle. I did some trials and it would have been very difficult to carry the longer lengths that I had up from below and down the side-decks with a wet and heaving deck but these lengths are easy to managed with the 1/4 g4.

On the bow I'll have a chain stopper in place to make manual retrieval safer until I get a windlass installed which may not happen until after I launch. I plan to install an electric windlass that I can operate from the cockpit for primary use and think that for single-handing the benefits of being able to operate the windlass from the cockpit outweigh the extra costs of wiring and lower reliability.

As with all things boat there are plenty of trade-offs to be made but I'm glad to feel comfortable with my anchor rode decisions after hearing from so many on this forum and in other places. I still wish that I could move my chain storage aft but that would involve too many trade-offs on my boat from what I've been able to come up with.

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Old 14-01-2012, 09:36   #25
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Re: Getting Chain into the Bilge

Way too much chain! Esp. for E. coast U.S. and Bahamas.Studies have shown that any scope of more than 8/1 is a waste. With your 4.5' draft I'll bet you will never need more than 60' of chain if you go to nylon rode at the end.(studies by Ogg confirm that chain with nylon may be the best any how,see google)
N.B.possible exception is Maine with deeper anchorages and big tidal range.
Sure ,stow another section in bilges but in your smaller boat , reduced weight will prevent proper amounts of rum and other vital supplies (think 105lbs.,blue eyes) from pushing the water line beneath the waves.

Also doubt you will ever need a windlass in your Pearson;proper technique(back straight,use legs)And a slow pull will let catenary pull boat up to anchor for retrival.
For difficult conditions add a chain pawl,chain claw to a genoa winch and use the motor to break out any stubborn anchor.

FWIW,I have a bad back,am 69 Y.O., use heavier chain(5/16) ,and am of modest size and physical condition ; yet usuing the above approach I can pull it off while single handing.

But ,the older I get, the better I was! Regards
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Old 14-01-2012, 10:00   #26
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Re: Getting Chain into the Bilge

I keep my spare chain in a dry bag in the bilge. It stays dry and corrosion-free. - Colin
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Old 14-01-2012, 14:46   #27
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Re: Getting Chain into the Bilge

I recently designed , constructed and tested a device that puts a constant pull on a chain, can slip indefinitely, and freewheels in reverse.
I have not fitted it yet, but the idea is that after the chain drops off the anchor winch gypsy, this device drags the chain under the floor and drops it into a well in the keel near the mast.
Works well in the workshop, will be interesting to see how things go once it is installed.
Regards,
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Old 14-01-2012, 14:59   #28
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Re: Getting Chain into the Bilge

Hello Richard,

Sounds interesting, and complicated to build. I wonder if your device, coupled with pvc piping (if needed) would open up non-bow storage of anchor chain on a variety of different boats?

I hadn't thought of using anything but gravity to help pass the chain to the bilge and would love to see what you've come up with if you ever get the chance.

Jonathan
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Old 14-01-2012, 15:05   #29
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Re: Getting Chain into the Bilge

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Originally Posted by boden36 View Post
I recently designed , constructed and tested a device that puts a constant pull on a chain, can slip indefinitely, and freewheels in reverse. . . .
Works well in the workshop, will be interesting to see how things go once it is installed.
Regards, Richard.
You might need some extensive in-boat testing as there is a problem that nobody has even been able to lick so far. Chain dropping into a chain locker, so some reason only known to the gods, develops a twist where the links double back on each other. Trying to then get the chain out of the locker results in "twisted knots" of chain getting stuck in chain/deck pipes or pipe leads up out of the chain locker.
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Old 14-01-2012, 16:46   #30
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Re: Getting Chain into the Bilge

Most of the answers are folks with big heavy boats where 250lbs of extra weight is rounding error. Your Pearson 28 is a lovely boat to sail but turns wet and cranky upwind if overloaded. Your total displacement is what? About 7500lbs?

I'd put 150ft of chain on the bow with 150 feet of easy coiling brait nylon attached. On the East Coast you're unlikely to see that rope again unless you like to anchor out in the slop with the 50 footers.

Sell the extra chain. You don't mention your anchor. The best single thing you can do to have a low stress anchoring experience in your cruising waters is to have a one size heavy new design anchor - Spade, Rocna, Ultra, or Manson Supreme. I'd choose a 35lb Supreme for about $350.

Carl
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