Electric windlass? Yea or nay?

[hamburking]

I'm going to disagree with the crowd.

Up until recently, I had a similar boat...an old/heavy Pearson 30, with a 15kg bruce on a bow roller. No windlass at all. 12' of heavy chain before 200' of nylon rode. It was awesome. I could sit on the foredeck and haul it up. Yes, it was work. And days when I had to haul it up 3, 4 or 5 times were a chore. But I was rewarded with big biceps...a real gunshow...and upper body strength that serves me well.

I would compare it to cycling and electric bikes...sure electric will be so much easier...but is that the point? There is a benefit to doing it the hard way. A big, healthy, strong benefit. If I wanted it to be easy, I'd just stay on land. If you have a medical condition, or advanced age, then sure, get the wheelchair...I mean electric windlass.

You've got a great size boat for no windlass. Stay strong. Stay healthy. KISS. Save your batteries.

Just my opinion.

[PortClydeMe]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

That's 100kg of chain, 50lbs+ for the windlass, another 30lbs for extra deck reinforcing & backing plates for things. Then another 20lbs for the #2 roller, plus another 50lbs, for the #2 anchor. On top of 100lbs for the chain & rode for the #2, & of course, 50lbs+ for your primary anchor.

I prefer Skip Novak's thoughts on ground tackle. A single anchor, and oversized gear. 105# CQR and 100 meters of 12mm chain. All stored at the bow.

To the OP, electric is good. Have no idea which model windlass Skippy uses, but it's up to the task at hand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYfoki6vW-M

[zeehag]

as for lofrans being able to be used manually and electrically?? yup is the design, HOWEVER, this is why i bought a separate manual windlass..i found they both freeze. oops. hand over hand, yet again.

[HopCar]

Being a power boater my experience is different than most of you guys. I'm perfectly capable of retrieving my anchor by hand. I only have about 25 feet of 1/4 chain and a bunch of 1/2 rope.

I installed a windlass that I can control from the helm. When I want to anchor, I push a button and the anchor goes down. When I want to leave I push a button and the anchor comes up. Easy Peasy.

With out this windlass I would avoid anchoring if I'm single handed. With it, it's very nice to take my boat out by myself to fish or overnight in some quiet spot.

[Shala]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I had that same windlass for almost 20 years, and never a lick of trouble. On a 37', 10 ton boat. My father was using it without any problem well into his 80's.

I've used different electric windlasses, and while they are not the most troublesome device on board, there's regularly some kind of problem or another, usually expensive.

On a 30' boat, and I'm guessing no more than 8mm chain (right?), I think I'd probably stay with the manual one, if it were me.

Electric windlass does become mandatory after a certain size of ground tackle, but I doubt you're there.

Electric windlass does save a lot of labor, and adds some safety in that you can get the anchor up much faster. If you install a switch at the helm, you can set the anchor single handed with no problem at all. But expensive and quite a bit of trouble to install. Probably wouldn't be worth it to me, but YMMV.

I don't like vertical windlasses by the way. I would stick with horizontal if I were you, whether you go electric or manual.

please excuse my ignorance....what does this mean " YMMV" ?

[DDabs]

Originally Posted by Shala

please excuse my ignorance....what does this mean " YMMV" ?

Your mileage may vary.

[TrentePieds]

TrentePieds has the smallest of the vertical axis Vetus capstans. Just a toy really, and I tend to avoid using it EXCEPT for stowing the rode after its already on deck. The reason is that the spurling pipe is too narrow.

Somebody, like mebbe Dockhead ;-) might argue about terminology, so lets define: The spurling pipe is the pipe that leads from the gypsy through the deck into the chainlocker. A hawse pipe is rarely seen in toy ships. It is the pipe that leads the rode down from the windlass/capstan on the deck through the side of the hull. In toy ships, the stem roller serves the purpose a hawse serves in real ships.

Because my spurling pipe is too small in diameter to accept the chain-to-rope splice with any grace at all, I prepare for anchoring by manually hauling up the (calculated) required length of rode and flaking it on deck. The spurling pipe always wants to fight me, but it always loses :-). At the mark the rode is made fast to the central cleat. At the drop I ease out the rode till the anchor (a Bruce) touches bottom, then I continue to ease out keeping pace with the backing down so the rode grows forward but stays slack. The Bruce likes me to take care with aligning its shank with the direction of pull at the set :-) Then I set the anchor with a burst of reverse, and try the set by holding the RPM long enuff to verify that the anchor has indeed set.

To weigh we come forward slowly while I hand-over-hand the rode and flake it on deck. I have a stopper handy. It is made fast to the heel of the mast. When we are up-and-down and the anchor broken out, it's an easy enuff job to bring the anchor to the chock by hand and clap the stopper on the chain.

NOW, at long last the capstan comes into its own. It stows the rope part of the rode neatly enuff because there is NO LOAD ON IT. And it is NOT true that "you can't push a rope". You can, if the bit you push is short enuff, such as the distance twixt the clamplates on the drum/gypsy and the spurling pipe. But it'll never be reliable and fully automatic. When we get to the splice, the spurling pipe and I have another tussle. Sometimes it's necessary to go below and yank the splice in from the locker side. Cos you can't push a chain :-) Once we've sorted that out, the chain comes in by the gypsy easily enuff once a few pounds of it has gone through the spurling.

As I've said many times, the PO was extremely weak on the fundamentals. And the perfessional riggers he employed likewise. The only solution is a bigger capstan. But why would I bother? It'll be a long time yet before I can't handle the rope rode with a sheet winch if I have to. Picked up a sunken mooring can last year. Now THAT was hard work. My back and the sheet winch could take it. The baby Vetus capstan never would have!

TrentePieds

[TrentePieds]

@ #31

Damn -those Kinaydians are tough ;-0)!

TrentePieds

[Kreef]

Originally Posted by JiminVA

My venerable Simpson-Lawrence HySpeed manual windlass just broke. I may be able to get the broken parts, but am also wondering if I should just use that as an excuse/opportunity to install an electric windlass.

I have a 30', 12,000 pound sailboat with a 33# Bruce anchor and 40' of 3/8" BBB chain plus rope rode. I normally anchor in the Chesapeake in 8' to 20' of water. (Hope to be venturing further afield next year.) Several folks I know have told me that I will realize how great having an electric windlass and all chain (yup, I'd buy new chain too) can be as soon as I upgrade. Part of me likes the KISS of the manual windlass. But I can see several advantages of the electric...including the fact that my wife could raise the anchor if she wanted to do that instead of taking the helm.

I realize everyone's situation is different, but if you switched to an electric windlass were you happy with the change? Any advantages, disadvantages I haven't thought of?

HI I used to have an electric windlass on my catamaran a 36 ft Dean Aero and compared to having to pull up an anchor manually it was a total joy to use but if I were to have a choice I would have a dual use manual/electric one in case of malfunction .Do such windlasses exist?If they do that would be my choice.

[Cheechako]

I've had a few anchorages, where after a long tiring trip, I tried to anchor maybe up to 4 or 5 times before getting it done. I would hate to do that manually!

[RaymondR]

I fitted my boat with an electric, vertical shaft windlass when new and it worked fine until I went cruising and started using it pretty well every day. The first serious problem occurred when the shaft began to wear where it passed through the deck plate allowing water to leak past the seal into the gearbox. The gearbox oil would leak along the motor shaft causing excessive wear on the motor brushes. This required disassembly of the winch every few months to clean it out and replace the contaminated oil.


Eventually the brass pinion gear became worn until the worm would no longer engage and the windlass required replacement. When I worked out the amount of usage the windlass had before turning into junk and priced a new one I decided that these things were not that good value for money.


Since my boat is pretty industrial anyway and I had the equipment and skills I decided to rebuild the windlass as a horizontal shaft version using an industrial worm drive gearbox and the shaft, cathead and wildcat from the old winch. I decided on horizontal shaft because the vertical shaft appeared fairly hard on the galvanizing on the chain where it passed through 90 degrees to go through the deck fitting.


Whilst it looks a little industrial the new arrangement has worked well for about six years now and since the cost of conversion was about 1/6th of completely replacing the original winch has been good value for money.


I am of the opinion that there is no sense in gut busting and putting ones back at risk by hand retrieving ground tackle whilst pursuing a recreational activity and consequently a powered winch is a necessity once you progress beyond a dingy.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by JiminVA

My venerable Simpson-Lawrence HySpeed manual windlass just broke. I may be able to get the broken parts, but am also wondering if I should just use that as an excuse/opportunity to install an electric windlass.

I have a 30', 12,000 pound sailboat with a 33# Bruce anchor and 40' of 3/8" BBB chain plus rope rode. I normally anchor in the Chesapeake in 8' to 20' of water. (Hope to be venturing further afield next year.) Several folks I know have told me that I will realize how great having an electric windlass and all chain (yup, I'd buy new chain too) can be as soon as I upgrade. Part of me likes the KISS of the manual windlass. But I can see several advantages of the electric...including the fact that my wife could raise the anchor if she wanted to do that instead of taking the helm.

I realize everyone's situation is different, but if you switched to an electric windlass were you happy with the change? Any advantages, disadvantages I haven't thought of?

A few additional thoughts. The First being that it's both commendable & wise, to make it easy for your wife, or anyone else to handle the anchoring duties onboard.
For often times, anchoring, & also retrieving the hook is fairly stressful. Without adding in the physicality of lifting all of the ground tackle; sometimes multiple times, in order to get a good set.

And regarding the multiple times thing. Even on a 30'er, with little chain, it does get wearing, pulling up the hook a few times in 50' of water, in order to get things to set properly. Even when you're young.
Especially if it's windy, or there's a current running, etc. Coupled with the fact that you're balancing on the foredeck, holding onto Only the anchor rode while pulling it in. So that you're doing a bit of "juggling".


In addition to which, if you have a light rode like that, you can haul it in manually, relatively quickly. But if your rode & anchor are heavier, & you NEED to pull it in in a hurry, perhaps several times. Due to being in a tight anchorage with tricky winds, having other vessels close by, etc., then a windlass becomes an aid to safety under such circumstances.

Especially if the water is deep, & you can't get your hook to begin to bite on 2:1 or 3:1 scope. Or it gets fouled, etc. And you have to half way, or fully retrieve it each time.
That, & that due to the bottom's deep water topography, you're forced to anchor quite close to shore, so that the positioning of the anchor needs to be exact. Thus, again, you may be hauling in fully half of the length (& weight) of your 300' of chain, or more, on each try.
Or maybe even all of your ground tackle, plus the weight of X, if your hook gets snagged on something. Like say, a cable, some other old chain, Y, or Z.

Doing the above by hand, or with a manual windlass, begins to slide from the "not fun" category, over towards the semi-dangerous side of things. If it's possible at all, without losing your hook. Due to being unable to reel it in thanks to the extra mass of the snag... which a power windlass likely could lift.
And compounding the dangers in such circumstances, is the adding in of the fatigue factor that's building up in everyone, with each try. Both physical, & emotional. And such is also added to; by noise, poor weather, poor visibility, difficulty communicating onboard, etc. Let alone if the engine quits, or you snag the dinghy's painter in the prop during things.


Back to the topic of making it easy for everyone onboard to be able to handle the anchor. I find that it's easier to teach someone how to anchor, & get them to understand & retain more of anchoring's key points, when they're not exhausted, & physically overstressed from trying to lift something which weighs half of what they do, 3x over... in the pursuit of getting it right.

So it's a tool which aids in teaching good seamanship as well. For if the crew being schooled isn't so tired. Then they'll more quickly pick up on such finer points as being able to discern the quality of a set via placing their foot on the rode. Or remembering to shoot bearings on landmarks, so as to get a good manual fix, for plotting the set. As well as laying out your Escape Bearings on the chart, etc.

Plus which, again, if you, the primary anchor hauler, throw out your back, sprain your wrist, etc., what then? If you have a reliable windlass, odds are such doesn't present much in the way of complications to your anchoring. But if you're the only one aboard who can lift your ground tackle, what are your options?
So again, the windlass is a (semi) safety item onboard. To be backed up with a Plan B, & C.


My Plan B, being, a pair of lines, each with a chain hook spliced onto one end. Which are long enough to go from the bow roller, all the way back, through the aft most, stout deck block, & then to the primary manual winches in the cockpit.

So that if the windlass packs it in, you can haul in the rode a boat length or so at a time, with the Port hook. And then switch to the Starboard one, to haul in another boat length of ground tackle.
Alternating winch grinders as needed, with the resting grinder(s) having the duty of swapping out the chain hooks, & stowing the rode.

PS: And yes, IMO, hydraulic units are preferable from a reilability standpoint. But only so much as the weakest link in your hydraulic power system.
Such is why hydraulics are the norm for powering heavy gear in commercial marine applications.

[Mithril Bham]

An Ideal vertical windlass has been on my boat since 1978. Never a failure since I have had it and works smooth as silk. Change the oil once a year and keep clean.
Get a remote for single handed work.

[adlib2]

Originally Posted by JiminVA

My venerable Simpson-Lawrence HySpeed manual windlass just broke. I may be able to get the broken parts, but am also wondering if I should just use that as an excuse/opportunity to install an electric windlass.

I have a 30', 12,000 pound sailboat with a 33# Bruce anchor and 40' of 3/8" BBB chain plus rope rode. I normally anchor in the Chesapeake in 8' to 20' of water. (Hope to be venturing further afield next year.) Several folks I know have told me that I will realize how great having an electric windlass and all chain (yup, I'd buy new chain too) can be as soon as I upgrade. Part of me likes the KISS of the manual windlass. But I can see several advantages of the electric...including the fact that my wife could raise the anchor if she wanted to do that instead of taking the helm.

I realize everyone's situation is different, but if you switched to an electric windlass were you happy with the change? Any advantages, disadvantages I haven't thought of?

If you're passaging to the Trade Winds you will need a bigger anchor and hence an electric windlass.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I don't nearly the nm under my keel than many here, but I do anchor a lot. Our boat came with a stout Plath bronze manual windlass. I've used it for the past six years with nearly zero problems (I broke the handle once due to metal fatigue).

I'm not spiritually opposed to an electric windlass. They obviously work well, are faster, and are probably easier on the crew. That said I just haven't had any situation I couldn't manage with our manual.

ADD: The speed issue is one people often cite. I guess I'm rarely in that much of a hurry. My morning ritual is to take my second cup of coffee to the foredeck and start cranking away. Haul in to about 2/3:1 while partner finalizes at the helm and get the engine running or sails ready if we're sailing off anchor. Then I finish the haul in with the last few swallows of my coffee.

If your windlass is properly sized it's not hard work. A little repetitive perhaps, but gives you time to enjoy the anchorage one last time.

Mike, on a beautiful morning when you are making a scheduled departure for the days sailing, your idyllic picture is a true pleasure, and a bit of morning mild exercise is not an evil prospect... quite agreed there.

But there are other time one needs to weigh...

Last weekend a pretty decent storm system affected the New South Wales coast. Long periods of ~50 knot winds, wave rider buoys reporting combined sea and swell heights of as much as 22 metres... pretty crappy wx!

We were anchored on the north side of Towler's bay for the predicted northerly quadrant winds, and were faring just fine. The forecast had been consistently predicting the wind to go from NE through to NW, possibly even W, and we were ok from all those directions. But, the low center changed direction and passed to the other side of us, a factor that only appeared in the f/c in the late afternoon... and we didn't catch the change in time. So, the wind went to the S, putting us on a lee shore, and damn close at that. Had to move. Now it is pitch dark, pissing down rain, and gusting around 40 knots. Had about 150 feet of chain out, 25 feet depth, other boats moored nearby.

I was REALLY glad to have a fairly fast acting powered windlass.

Jim