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Old 22-09-2017, 00:14   #1
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Dyneema Anchor Rode

One thing on my list this year is to get rid of some of my heavy 12mm chain to get some weight out of my bow, and substitute some rope rode.

I have 100 meters of 12mm chain which weight 330kg or 1/3 of a metric ton -- ouch. What was I thinking when I bought that?

I think I'll reduce it to 60 meters or about 200 feet.

But what kind of rope to use? 3 strand is nasty to handle -- hockles and doesn't flake well; sensitive to twisting. Nylon is vulnerable to chafe and loses strength when wet. Dyneema is not much more expensive now when you compare it by strength, doesn't absorb water, and is much more resistant to chafe. It would force me to use a snubber, but I guess that's not a big problem. But it's slippery -- how to you even attach the snubber? And will it work in my windlass?

Anyone have any tips?
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Old 22-09-2017, 00:27   #2
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Re: Dyneema Anchor Rode

Anchor plait works well for me.. Fits in the slot in the windlass gypsy and stows well under the chain. Though very rare that the 60m of 10mm chain will all be out.

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Old 22-09-2017, 00:32   #3
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Re: Dyneema Anchor Rode

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
One thing on my list this year is to get rid of some of my heavy 12mm chain to get some weight out of my bow, and substitute some rope rode.

I have 100 meters of 12mm chain which weight 330kg or 1/3 of a metric ton -- ouch. What was I thinking when I bought that?

I think I'll reduce it to 60 meters or about 200 feet.

But what kind of rope to use? 3 strand is nasty to handle -- hockles and doesn't flake well; sensitive to twisting. Nylon is vulnerable to chafe and loses strength when wet. Dyneema is not much more expensive now when you compare it by strength, doesn't absorb water, and is much more resistant to chafe. It would force me to use a snubber, but I guess that's not a big problem. But it's slippery -- how to you even attach the snubber? And will it work in my windlass?

Anyone have any tips?
I am thinking about the same issues here, so would be interested in the responses. Apart from the slippery nature of dyneema, the fact that it floats is a big drawback. It would need some lead weights.

Regarding attaching a snubber, I thought I would make the dyneema in 15-20 metre lengths with eye splices on each side and sections cow hitched together. This would enable the snubber to be easily attached with a soft shackle. These junctions are also where lead weights could be attached.

This would double up as a spare stern line or even a backup dockline if extreme conditions are expected. A long length of dyneema would have numerous potential uses.

Rather than dyneema though, I would use Acera that is about 1/3 of the price.

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Old 22-09-2017, 00:34   #4
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Re: Dyneema Anchor Rode

There are some old threads on this, but I can't recall if anyone had a good solution for cleating this stuff, or attaching snubbers. Other than weight, I can't see many perks to using Dyneema for rode, & having a super light rode seems counter intuitive.
Why not swap out your 12mm chain for 10mm G43? That would save you a huge amount of weight, & it should be strong enough for the job.
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Old 22-09-2017, 00:45   #5
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Re: Dyneema Anchor Rode

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
I am thinking about the same issues here, so would be interested in the responses. Apart from the slippery nature of dyneema, the fact that it floats is a big drawback. It would need some lead weights.

Regarding attaching a snubber, I thought I would make the dyneema in 15-20 metre lengths with eye splices on each side and sections cow hitched together. This would enable the snubber to be easily attached with a soft shackle. These junctions are also where lead weights could be attached.

This would double up as a spare stern line or even a backup dockline if extreme conditions are expected. A long length of dyneema would have numerous potential uses.

Rather than dyneema though, I would use Acera that is about 1/3 of the price.

SWL
I forgot about the floating -- forget Dyneema then. A floating anchor rode would be a menace of navigation.

I thought you hated cow hitches?

I had not heard about Acera -- looks very interesting! But it also floats . .. :headbang:
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Old 22-09-2017, 00:50   #6
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Re: Dyneema Anchor Rode

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post
There are some old threads on this, but I can't recall if anyone had a good solution for cleating this stuff, or attaching snubbers. Other than weight, I can't see many perks to using Dyneema for rode, & having a super light rode seems counter intuitive.
Why not swap out your 12mm chain for 10mm G43? That would save you a huge amount of weight, & it should be strong enough for the job.
Another approach would be to downsize the chain as you say. But 10mm G40 (we don't have G43 over here) is not strong enough -- I have 12mm G40 now. I would need to go to G70. And I would need to change out the windlass gypsy. I think this is a bridge too far as I may not have this boat all that much longer.

I am ambivalent about the light high test chain idea of Dashew's. G70 loses a lot of strength when you regalvanize it. I like the weight and meat of larger chain. It can rust and have surface defects and you don't have to worry about it. And 12mm is heavy enough that you don't need a snubber.
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Old 22-09-2017, 01:14   #7
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Re: Dyneema Anchor Rode

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
I forgot about the floating -- forget Dyneema then. A floating anchor rode would be a menace of navigation.

I thought you hated cow hitches?

I had not heard about Acera -- looks very interesting! But it also floats . .. :headbang:
It would need little weight to sink it. Attaching this to one of the eye splices would be an easy solution.
A huge bonus with dyneema its chafe resistance. Apart from the total weight of the rode, the volume of rode is also greater reduced using dyneema. So don't dismiss it too quickly.

I started a thread recently about Acera, HMWPE fibre similar to dyneema, but at a fraction of the price:
Acera vs Dyneema & Jordan Series Drogues

SWL

PS I never utter the words "hate" and "knots" together . Cow hitches can be very useful.
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Old 22-09-2017, 01:29   #8
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Re: Dyneema Anchor Rode

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
It would need little weight to sink it. Attaching this to one of the eye splices would be an easy solution.
A huge bonus with dyneema its chafe resistance. Apart from the total weight of the rode, the volume of rode is also greater reduced using dyneema. So don't dismiss it too quickly.

I started a thread recently about Acera, HMWPE fibre similar to dyneema, but at a fraction of the price:
Acera vs Dyneema & Jordan Series Drogues

SWL

PS I never utter the words "hate" and "knots" together . Cow hitches can be very useful.
Sure, but how is it going to go through the windlass with weights attached to it? Doesn't sound good to me.

I'll check out the other thread -- there are plenty of other things I need something like dyneema for. 1/3 the price means much cheaper than any other cordage, strength for strength. Interesting.
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Old 22-09-2017, 01:43   #9
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Re: Dyneema Anchor Rode

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Sure, but how is it going to go through the windlass with weights attached to it? Doesn't sound good to me.

I'll check out the other thread -- there are plenty of other things I need something like dyneema for. 1/3 the price means much cheaper than any other cordage, strength for strength. Interesting.
I think you would just need one weight (eg a dive weight) soft shackled on. Easy to lean forward and undo as it reaches the bow roller. This would need some experimenting. Yes, it is a drawback, but not a huge one. I think the benefits of dyneema outweigh this negative.

Acera was a real find! It is available here only through fishing stores that the commercial guys use. Local marine stores are unfamiliar with this.
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Old 22-09-2017, 03:02   #10
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Re: Dyneema Anchor Rode

Knotless line connecter for attaching the snubber. Stupid simple. Proven design. Easy to make or have fabricated. Has been used for years and years for attaching braided HPME fishing line.

I made the one in the photos just for fun using some round stock I had on hand. Loaded it up on a winch. No way it's ever going to slip.

Not sure what percentage of line strength it would break at but expect it would be very high. With Dyneema vs Chain you can go way oversized and still save money so strength not really a concern anyway.

The connector is very easy to install as seen in the video. It's used for fishing so it's not like you ever have to worry about it shaking loose.

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Old 22-09-2017, 03:12   #11
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Re: Dyneema Anchor Rode

Not sure that I think it is altogether a good idea, but one could defeat the flotation by threading some solder wire into the core of the Dyneema every few feet. Wouldn't take much to overcome the slight buoyancy and would flex enough to go 'round the windlass OK I think.

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Old 22-09-2017, 03:27   #12
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Re: Dyneema Anchor Rode

You could put a 1m piece of chain in between 20-30m sections of dyneema. That'll solve the floating issue, but probably not the windlass feeding one. Which is likely one of the core issues. Is 11mm G40 chain an option? You'd save 60kg or so in an equivalent length to what you have now. Though again you'd have to swap out windlass gypsys. How often do you use more than 60m of chain? And what kind of real world loads does your ground tackle see? As most of the data I've run across is saying that 12mm G40 chain is on the large end of the scale.
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Old 22-09-2017, 03:38   #13
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Re: Dyneema Anchor Rode

Dynema won't pull through any gypsy I have seen. It will pull up on a drum type but none of us has that on a cruising boat. So you might need a leader of plait between the Dynema and the chain. The Dynema can be pulled aboard by hand since it is so light. Once the plait comes aboard it can go into the gypsy.
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Old 22-09-2017, 03:39   #14
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Re: Dyneema Anchor Rode

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post
You could put a 1m piece of chain in between 20-30m sections of dyneema. That'll solve the floating issue, but probably not the windlass feeding one. Which is likely one of the core issues. Is 11mm G40 chain an option? You'd save 60kg or so in an equivalent length to what you have now. Though again you'd have to swap out windlass gypsys. How often do you use more than 60m of chain? And what kind of real world loads does your ground tackle see? As most of the data I've run across is saying that 12mm G40 chain is on the large end of the scale.
I have all 100 meters of my chain out fairly often. Range of tide in the Channel is up to 14 meters, so not all that rarely I am anchored in 20 meters of water at high tide. I remember being anchored in Ushant for most of a week in a pretty big Atlantic storm, in deep water, over 30 meters at high tide, next to a French Coast Guard cutter. About 5 years ago. I was glad to have a lot of heavy chain out, let me tell you . Besides that, I tend to use more chain than is strictly necessary, if I have room -- and I usually do. My Dad taught me that "chain doesn't do any good sitting in the locker". Since I don't use a snubber, having extra chain out is also good for comfort.

As to the "real world loads" -- they are small, because I avoid anchoring in really bad conditions. But I want the ground tackle to be capable of dealing with really bad conditions -- in case I need it someday. And capable even after normal wear and tear and rust and so forth, and after being regalvanized. Bill Dixon specified 12mm, and I think he must have had a good reason to do so.
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Old 22-09-2017, 03:41   #15
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Re: Dyneema Anchor Rode

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Dynema won't pull through any gypsy I have seen. It will pull up on a drum type but none of us has that on a cruising boat. So you might need a leader of plait between the Dynema and the chain. The Dynema can be pulled aboard by hand since it is so light. Once the plait comes aboard it can go into the gypsy.
Neither does this sound good. I think Dyneema is off the list now.

I guess I will have to use polyester, maybe octoplait. The octo is supposed to work well in the windlass.
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