Dyneema Anchor Rode

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

I think you would just need one weight (eg a dive weight) soft shackled on. Easy to lean forward and undo as it reaches the bow roller. This would need some experimenting. Yes, it is a drawback, but not a huge one. I think the benefits of dyneema outweigh this negative.

Acera was a real find! It is available here only through fishing stores that the commercial guys use. Local marine stores are unfamiliar with this.

If the lengths are 20m then that would suggest a total of 9 knots and splices between the anchor and the boat, is that a good idea for an anchor rode?

How about clipping on some diver ankle weights which are lead shot. they could probably go around the windlass without trouble but simple enough to unclip as they come aboard.

https://www.mikesdivestore.com/colle...-ankle-weights

Originally Posted by conachair

Anchor plait works well for me.. Fits in the slot in the windlass gypsy and stows well under the chain. Though very rare that the 60m of 10mm chain will all be out.

We have anchor plait for the spare anchor and it lives in a bucket. Never knots or ties itself up in a heap, just not sure about its abrasion resistance.

Why don't people have rope drums on the windlass? I am surprised.

Pete

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by Pete7

We have anchor plait for the spare anchor and it live in a bucket. Never knots or ties itself up in a heap, just not sure about its abrasion resistance.

Why don't people have rope drums on the windlass? I am surprised.

Pete

Actually, quite a lot of windlasses have built in rope drums (capstans). I couldn't see buying one that didn't. And I'm a fan of the Maxwell verticals, since they have a rope drum right above the chain gypsy. One which you can operate independently of the gypsy if you like, thus enabling you to adjust 2 rodes at once, so long as one's primarily chain, & the other's primarily rope.
Vertical Windlass Range

With the above model it's fairly easy to mount it just aft of the chain locker bulkhead, so that it's electrical bits are seperated from all of the moisture in said locker. Yet it'll still feed your rode into & out of the locker quite well when properly placed.

Though, of course, Maxwell also makes plenty of styles of vertical windlasses which also have capstans, & that have a traditional, built in hawse. One that's essentially self feeding.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Neither does this sound good. I think Dyneema is off the list now.

I guess I will have to use polyester, maybe octoplait. The octo is supposed to work well in the windlass.

Nylon anchorplait is a bit stronger & more stretch - Jimmy Greens might have some on offer if you're lucky.

[Benz]

Dockhead: Nylon brait or anchorplait (the 8-strand stuff) is what chain/rope gypsies were designed for, or vice versa. Either way, they work well together, since the line is nice and nubbly. It has a lovely hand, and it splices easy. I've anchored hundreds of nights on 3-strand nylon and never wore it out--you just have to rolling-hitch a cheaper piece of line to the nylon rode and let that take the strain through the hawse or chock.
Some people have problems getting the splice into the gypsy, especially if they've used a thicker line than the chain likes, but there's a splicing method that solves that:
https://www.jimmygreen.co.uk/p/techn...ical-articles-

I personally wouldn't use polyester, or G70 chain (it corrodes like crazy!)

There's nothing to be feared from nylon--it's the perfect material for the job.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I have all 100 meters of my chain out fairly often. Range of tide in the Channel is up to 14 meters, so not all that rarely I am anchored in 20 meters of water at high tide. I remember being anchored in Ushant for most of a week in a pretty big Atlantic storm, in deep water, over 30 meters at high tide, next to a French Coast Guard cutter.

As to the "real world loads" -- they are small, because I avoid anchoring in really bad conditions. But I want the ground tackle to be capable of dealing with really bad conditions -- in case I need it someday. And capable even after normal wear and tear and rust and so forth, and after being regalvanized. Bill Dixon specified 12mm, and I think he must have had a good reason to do so.

Where the bleep are you anchoring that has a 14m tidal range? That's huge, like 45' huge. The currents must be insane in said locale. And do you commonly use 10:1 scope?

You might query Bill Dixon as to why he specified 12mm G40, & also ask if downsizing would be a problem. Ditto on asking another NA or two about this. As the ABYC numbers, which most think overstate real world loads, suggest that you could go smaller.

Some of this "problem" is of your own making though. You want the catenary provided by the heavy chain, but you don't want the chain's weight when not anchored. That's more than a minor conundrum I'd say.

You could always have the bow rebuilt with more volume That'd solve the nose diving, heavy chain issue.

[Pete7]

[QUOTE=UNCIVILIZED;2484177]Where the bleep are you anchoring that has a 14m tidal range? That's huge, like 45' huge. The currents must be insane in said locale. And do you commonly use 10:1 scope?


Here:



Or here showing HW and LW.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

Where the bleep are you anchoring that has a 14m tidal range? That's huge, like 45' huge. The currents must be insane in said locale. And do you commonly use 10:1 scope?

The Channel has big tides and strong currents. The Bay of St. Malo has tides up to 14 meters (more than 45') at springs; 6 meters is very common on both sides. The currents run up to 12 knots in the Alderney Race; 4 knots even in the Solent at springs.

It adds a WHOLE nother dimension to passage planning. On top of that a lot of wind -- 11 named storms last year. If you can sail here, you can sail anywhere!

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

You might query Bill Dixon as to why he specified 12mm G40, & also ask if downsizing would be a problem. Ditto on asking another NA or two about this. As the ABYC numbers, which most think overstate real world loads, suggest that you could go smaller.

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

Some of this "problem" is of your own making though. You want the catenary provided by the heavy chain, but you don't want the chain's weight when not anchored. That's more than a minor conundrum I'd say.

You could always have the bow rebuilt with more volume That'd solve the nose diving, heavy chain issue.

It wouldn't solve the polar moment of inertia problem, which exacerbates pitching. In any case, I don't think I will have this boat for all that much longer, so no rebuilding will take place.

But you're right -- you can't have your cake and eat it too -- a reasonably light bow and at the same time nice heavy long chain for catenary. UNLESS -- your chain locker is not in the bow. I will shamelessly copy the Sundeer chain locker on the next boat.

[SV Windrush II]

When i get a chance, i am going to build a chain locker under my V birh and use a tube to guide the chain down to it.
I have 100 meters of chain and it always piles up to the deck when i am bringing in the anchor, and being singlehanded, running back into the cabin to shake the chain out to make more room 2 or three times while bringing the anchor in is really a pain. And i have plenty of room for it under the v-birh. The only pain is cleaning out the locker after a few anchorages.

This will also take alot of the weight more aft and considerably lower. There are quite a few threads on this method online.

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by Benz

but there's a splicing method that solves that:
https://www.jimmygreen.co.uk/p/techn...ical-articles-

If you mean their "Anchorplait© to Chain Splice" . . . be aware that the windless manufacturers do not like or recommend it. It is easy to make and is high strength (when done correctly) and a decent splice if you are not using a rope to chain gypsy, BUT the windless guys have had cases where a link turned a bit sideways (inside the splice, where the rope is taking the load rather than the chain) and jammed in the gypsy and stalled the windless occasionally either hurting the gearbox or the motor. They pretty much all recommend some one of the back/loop splices where the chain links are unconstrained, and there are various tips/tricks for making these lower bulk and more flexible so they run thru the gypsy pretty well.

I agree with your general thought on materials. I'd personally go nylon, but if I had some particular reason to be concerned about chafe I'd use polyester (plait in both cases).

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

If you mean their "Anchorplait© to Chain Splice" . . . be aware that the windless manufacturers do not like or recommend it. It is easy to make and is high strength (when done correctly) and a decent splice if you are not using a rope to chain gypsy, BUT the windless guys have had cases where a link turned a bit sideways (inside the splice, where the rope is taking the load rather than the chain) and jammed in the gypsy and stalled the windless occasionally either hurting the gearbox or the motor. They pretty much all recommend some one of the back/loop splices where the chain links are unconstrained, and there are various tips/tricks for making these lower bulk and more flexible so they run thru the gypsy pretty well.

I agree with your general thought on materials. I'd personally go nylon, but if I had some particular reason to be concerned about chafe I'd use polyester (plait in both cases).

I would be pretty relaxed about just one splice I needed to baby through the windlass. I'd just make the chain off with a hook and skip the splice, even. I don't think this is a big problem.

I would be inclined to go with polyester over nylon not just because of chafe, but because of strength (nylon's losing strength when wet, losing strength due to cyclical loads, etc.). Both Dashew and Peter Smith strongly prefer polyester, and I think that's good enough for me (the "Right Rode"). Polyester is plenty elastic for this use.

Polyester octoplait is lovely to handle and stores nicely too.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I would be inclined to go with polyester over nylon not just because of chafe, but because of strength (nylon's losing strength when wet, losing strength due to cyclical loads, etc.). Both Dashew and Peter Smith strongly prefer polyester, and I think that's good enough for me (the "Right Rode"). Polyester is plenty elastic for this use.

Polyester octoplait is lovely to handle and stores nicely too.

You might read some of Thinwater's articles & testing on various rope types used for anchor rodes, or consult with him directly. As he has a lot of real world numbers on what works & what doesn't, including the why behind same. And if memory serves, according to him, polyester can wind up transmitting as much shock loads as does directly connecting the chain to the boat. Though I don't know the specifics behind said statement. But he even has a book coming out about these kinds of things, based on his vast body of testing for various publications & periodicals.

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Polyester is plenty elastic for this use.

If you have a bunch out, it does add a bunch of elasticity. If you have only a short section out, it really does not.

But if you are happy currently anchoring on all chain with no snubber . . . . then polyester will be just fine.

There is a size vessel where you just give up on the whole elasticity thing and simply build the boat real strong. Both Dashew and Smith's aluminum war machines were in that camp.

I think you would be just fine with either nylon or polyester. Just some slightly different trade-offs. Go with whichever pleases you the most You can always rolling hitch a nylon snubber if you find a situation where the chain/polyester need a bit more stretch.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

You might read some of Thinwater's articles & testing on various rope types used for anchor rodes, or consult with him directly. As he has a lot of real world numbers on what works & what doesn't, including the why behind same. And if memory serves, according to him, polyester can wind up transmitting as much shock loads as does directly connecting the chain to the boat. Though I don't know the specifics behind said statement. But he even has a book coming out about these kinds of things, based on his vast body of testing for various publications & periodicals.

I'll definitely talk to Thinwater.

Dashew is pretty categorical about polyester vs nylon, and I find his arguments pretty convincing. Have you read this?

dashew-right-rode-2.pdf

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

If you have a bunch out, it does add a bunch of elasticity. If you have only a short section out, it really does not.

But if you are happy currently anchoring on all chain with no snubber . . . . then polyester will be just fine.

There is a size vessel where you just give up on the whole elasticity thing and simply build the boat real strong. Both Dashew and Smith's aluminum war machines were in that camp.

I think you would be just fine with either nylon or polyester. Just some slightly different trade-offs. Go with whichever pleases you the most You can always rolling hitch a nylon snubber if you find a situation where the chain/polyester need a bit more stretch.

Yes, I think a nylon snubber would be appropriate on a rope rode. If for no other reason than to get the load off the point where the rope meets the boat.

Speaking of which, how are your "super snubbers" working out? That sounded like a great project. If I ever start using snubbers again, I will copy them.

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Speaking of which, how are your "super snubbers" working out?

They worked awesome, up in Greenland and Newfoundland 3 years when I was soloing.

But we have given up boating . . . . so no new developments/experience with them. New England Ropes uses the concept in their 'cyclone mooring pendants' product and still has a 100% record.