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Old 24-02-2010, 19:16   #16
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Nitpik here (Why on earth did I choose that name?!!)

Sorry for the confusion, guys, I have lived with this system so long I forgot it is not standard.
As Bill figured, my chain enters the vessel on the starboard side, about 10" above the waterline, and passes up through a hawsepipe, just like "on a big ship".
So the chain comes straight up out of the deck, just in front of the windlass, over the gypsy, and down the chain pipe to the chain locker. This gives 180º wrap around the gypsy, which is good, but leaves little room for a conventional chain stopper between where the chain comes up out of the hole in the deck, and the gypsy. (and, any stopper in here would need to operate in the vertical position)
Sorry, no photos, but I hope this clarifies.
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Old 24-02-2010, 19:30   #17
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more details:

I also have no bow roller, since I have a 9' bowsprit, and would not want the snubbing loads out there on the end of such a big lever! With any bow roller system the anchor rode would chafe on the bobstay chain. My nylon snubber solves this problem by attaching at the bobstay to hull fitting.
I take snubbing loads off the windlass by the simple (and cheap!) expedient of placing a 1/2" x 6" SS pin through a link of chain on the deck, where the chain enters the hawsepipe. This works very well, but, both the pin and the snubber are removed when hauling anchor, and this is when I want a chain stopper so that big waves don't put a sudden snubbing load directly on the windlass.
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Old 24-02-2010, 21:35   #18
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Isn't what you're really after a riding pawl?
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Old 24-02-2010, 22:11   #19
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Ah, you already have your chain stopper ;-) No, you can't use a chain stopper while hauling your anchor, you would be too late plus it will only engage between two links and it's rare that you manage that before the strain is on the windlass.

In big waves, you would be better off trying to find a new technique. Instead of hauling chain until it's straight up&down, try to break out the anchor earlier by motoring forward over the anchor. with let's say 10-20' more chain out than the depth.

The only time I had some trouble with this was when my anchor was jammed with some rocks or coral or whatever it was (it was dark of course). I quickly let some chain out again and we motored over the anchor and the situation was dealt with painlessly that way.

You snubber location is the perfect one... it's the strongest point of the boat and as low as possible so good for scope ratio.

cheers,
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Old 25-02-2010, 06:24   #20
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Randy, I thought a chain stopper was in fact a riding pawl? The pawl automatically drops down after each link (by gravity), thus allowing chain retrieval, but preventing chain running out. I thought this should automatically eliminate windlass strain, since the pawl is right there ready to act if any force should try to yank out more chain.
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Old 25-02-2010, 06:32   #21
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Thanks Nick, I like the idea of early anchor break-out under such conditions. Yes, I am very happy with my snubber position, 'though it does mean some acrobatics, lying in the net under the bowsprit and reaching out to remove the hook on the chain. This is because the chain exits the hawse pipe down low, unreachable from the deck. A bow roller would solve that, but then I would not have my beautiful bowsprit, and I guess she wouldn't be a real schooner anymore!
I would still like an automatic device to eliminate excess strain on the gypsy during anchor retrieval.
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Old 25-02-2010, 06:54   #22
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Afraid all this puts us right back where we started. There are some chain snubbers...like the Lemars that West Marine/Defender sells....that have an optional pawl-type action. With the little lever, you can choose either to have the chain pull thru the stopper which lifts with each link, or you can turn the stopper out of the way as you would for dropping the anchor. I happen to have two of these...3/8" and 5/16".

HOWEVER, I doubt seriously that these would work correctly in a vertical position, nor would any other pawl or stopper I know of.

Bill
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Old 25-02-2010, 07:36   #23
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The riding pawl is sort of an automatic strain reliever and is flipped up out of the way when the anchor is let go. It's not meant ot take the place of a stopper on larger vessels. In theory there would be room for this riding pawl incorporated into a fairlead/chock between the windlass and the hawsepipe. It seems like you're going to need some kind of unique setup, it'll probably just take a while to think it through.
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Old 25-02-2010, 08:07   #24
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The Maxwell stoppers are the "riding pawl" type too. But that system still means that the chance that the pawl isn't engaged with a sudden pull is much bigger and the load is transferred to the windlass anyway. There's no stretch.
What it does prevent is dropping the anchor all the way down again like when the chain would come off the gypsy.

Also, when the chain jumps a bit, it flips the pawl over into the free-fall position. This happens often enough.

nitpik: you should try to find a way to pull the snubber up through the pipe so you can undo it on deck? May be a stopper knot or however it's called will pass the pipe?

cheers,
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Old 25-02-2010, 10:30   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitpik View Post
So the chain comes straight up out of the deck, just in front of the windlass . . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitpik View Post
I take snubbing loads off the windlass by the simple (and cheap!) expedient of placing a 1/2" x 6" SS pin through a link of chain on the deck, where the chain enters the hawsepipe.
My hawsepipe is horizontal just below the short bowsprit. Nevertheless, the pin as a stopper never came to me but will work quite well, and obviously is a much better approach than the chain hook behind the windlass. I will steal that idea of yours, thank you very much.
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Old 25-02-2010, 11:20   #26
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Nit- seems like you could have something fabricated that would work for your vertical chain. The pawl would either need to be weighted or spring loaded or some other way to ensure it would engage, but doesn't sound too difficult. Our chain stopper (with horizontal chain and traditional bow roller) operates just like you are describing, it automatically drops (I generally hold some pressure on it with my hand as I'm raising the anchor) between links so that when I get right over the anchor I can lock it and break it out. In large swells, which we don't generally encounter here in the PNW, it would do the same. Not sure of your deck layout but if you could mount a standard stopper on a vertical plate that is securely (and strongly) mounted to the deck (triangle?) you could have a weighted arm bolted or welded to the pawl to engage it.
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Old 25-02-2010, 12:13   #27
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John: but when you engage the stopper, surely you have to reverse the windlass a tad to do that? Also, Nit could just put the pin in a link for the same functionality.

I still see no advantage of a stopper over Nit's system with the pin, other than when the chain slips off the gypsy, for stopping the anchor going down. I have a vertical windlass and this has never happened to me but I saw the chain jump off a horizontal windlass once and it wasn't pretty.

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Old 25-02-2010, 12:35   #28
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Nick- yes, to take all the strain off the windlass you just tap the reverse switch, takes less than a second. I like to have the chain captured in the stopper so in an emergency (windlass shaft breaks, reverse switch sticks on, etc ?) I can stop the chain immediately. Fumbling with a pin around a loaded chain sounds like a good way to get hurt IMHO.
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Old 25-02-2010, 12:50   #29
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Quote:
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I still see no advantage of a stopper over Nit's system with the pin, other than when the chain slips off the gypsy, for stopping the anchor going down. I have a vertical windlass and this has never happened to me but I saw the chain jump off a horizontal windlass once and it wasn't pretty.
cheers,
Nick.
I think Nit's system might be a little hard to do as he raises the anchor.

Nit Yes, I am very happy with my snubber position, 'though it does mean some acrobatics, lying in the net under the bowsprit and reaching out to remove the hook on the chain. This is because the chain exits the hawse pipe down low, unreachable from the deck.

Nit: This works very well, but, both the pin and the snubber are removed when hauling anchor, and this is when I want a chain stopper so that big waves don't put a sudden snubbing load directly on the windlass.
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Old 25-02-2010, 12:51   #30
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Nick- yes, to take all the strain off the windlass you just tap the reverse switch, takes less than a second. I like to have the chain captured in the stopper so in an emergency (windlass shaft breaks, reverse switch sticks on, etc ?) I can stop the chain immediately. Fumbling with a pin around a loaded chain sounds like a good way to get hurt IMHO.
Oh yes I agree. Even with the chain stopper I am extremely careful.

With the pin, you just can't stop the chain running out without killing yourself. That's what I mean: it's the only pro of the chain stopper compared to the pin.

But for situations like locking the chain for motoring the anchor out etc. it's all controlled so the pin works just fine.

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