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Old 16-10-2006, 14:23   #16
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Also try http://www.davisnet.com/marine/ for the US

I dunno .. google works well here. Even using IE or Netscape search seems to work. :::shrug:::
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Old 17-10-2006, 04:45   #17
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google

It was a rhetorical question, actually. I was just trying to point out that, even though they are technically mandatory for anchoring outside designated anchorages, few if any sailors I know have ever even seen one. If they were commonly sold, i.e., sitting on a shelf at West Marine when I went in, I might have thought about buying one simply because their presence would remind me that, "hey, I think I am supposed to have those..."
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Old 17-10-2006, 07:33   #18
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Beside a black ball for day time anchoring I think you are also suppose to keep a look out...if I remenber correctly.can someone confirm that?
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Old 17-10-2006, 15:45   #19
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Well, since I started the discussion, I have gone and got myself an anchor ball to go with my flash new anchor light, and I'm going to use it. For me, I confess that the driver of the whole thing is the insurance angle more than the legality. From experience, I know the incredible loops and gymnastics that insurance companies will go to to avoid paying out on a claim. I can quite easily envisage the scenario whereby a claim for some totally unrelated mishap at anchor is with-held because the vessel is not complying with the rules.
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Old 17-10-2006, 16:36   #20
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Old 18-10-2006, 09:06   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exranger
It was a rhetorical question, actually. I was just trying to point out that, even though they are technically mandatory for anchoring outside designated anchorages, few if any sailors I know have ever even seen one. If they were commonly sold, i.e., sitting on a shelf at West Marine when I went in, I might have thought about buying one simply because their presence would remind me that, "hey, I think I am supposed to have those..."
I've seen them sitting on the shelf at West Marine. (That's where I bought mine.) I've also seen them in other stores and several catalogs.
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Old 21-10-2006, 02:14   #22
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We have been cruising for the past few years in Europe. Some countries you see almost everyone using an Anchor Ball, (Germany, Portugal, and Spain come to mind). Others you seldom see an Anchor Ball (France and Greece). Regarding the Downward cone dayshape -- I personally know a sailor who was boarded (routine inspection) and ticketed by the CG in Puget Sound for not displaying a cone dayshape while motorsailing. So I can attest that it has happened.

A couple of other points -- The designated anchorage rule where you do not have to use one is only under Inland Rules. Under International Rules, you are required to display an anchor ball no mater where you are anchored (if you are at anchor). For instance all of Puget Sound is under International Rules. The second point is that if you are required to display an anchor ball and are not doing so, and someone hits you -- no mater what the circumstances are, you are considered improperly anchored and it will be your fault.

Sounds like I'm a nit-picker for rules -- not really true -- we use ours about half of the time. I just painted up a radar reflector and hang it from a forward halyard.

Steve
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Old 26-11-2006, 09:57   #23
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Originally Posted by SUGILITE
We have been cruising for the past few years in Europe. Some countries you see almost everyone using an Anchor Ball, (Germany, Portugal, and Spain come to mind). Others you seldom see an Anchor Ball (France and Greece). Regarding the Downward cone dayshape -- I personally know a sailor who was boarded (routine inspection) and ticketed by the CG in Puget Sound for not displaying a cone dayshape while motorsailing. So I can attest that it has happened.
That's also my experience: It depends on the country. Although it is regulated by the COLREGS, it is absolutely uncommon in some countries to use dayshapes (I never seen them in the Mediterranean e.g. Greece, Croatia, etc). But I don't know, if there are local regulations allowing it.

At the Baltic Sea and the North Sea you definitively have to set dayshapes. It will also be controlled by the CG.

Peter
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Old 26-11-2006, 11:07   #24
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Radar reflector

Sugilite, you just came up with my suggestion! A black-painted radar reflector on the forestay meets the requirments and will also make your boat more visible to the commercial traffic at least.

I used that on my previous boat, but not on the current one (left the black painted one for the new owner.) Now that I'm back in the PNW I'm interested in using the steaming cone as well as the anchoring ball, mostly due to good manners and insurance issues. There have been times I wasn't sure if the boat over there was underway or anchored.
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Old 29-11-2006, 17:27   #25
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The Davis radar reflector works great for this. A little bit of black spray paint and it looks like a black ball from a distance.

Steve
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Old 30-11-2006, 05:46   #26
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You can drive without your seat belt..
as you can anchor without your anchoring ball..

But it is so simple to use.. why not??

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Old 30-11-2006, 18:42   #27
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Alain,

I agree with you. Why would anyone consider not using it? Makes no sense. If you're budgeting that much, then cut out two plywood circles and dovetail them together, paint them black et voila.

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Old 01-12-2006, 02:16   #28
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For those who wonder - a conventional store purchased anchor ball - and indeed also the cone shape (for motorsailing) - are usually made of black plastic and also flat packed - dovetailing together when you use them.

The advantage of these over painting up a radar reflector would I guess, be storage space. Both plastic items lie flat in the bottom of any cockpit locker.

In my personal opinion - I'm not sure they actually clarify any situation for another skipper. In my eyes the fact a boat is static with an anchor chain out seems a bit more obvious than any small black ball. And when I see a yacht doing a reasonable speed with just a mainsail up and smoke puffing out the back - I don't think I need the inverted cone to realise it is under power.
But whilst the regs are there, anyone does take a risk in a country where they insist the regs are kept to. So we never used either in Oz (nor would I still as you'd feel a bit like a burk) - but I would consider using them in the UK.
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Old 01-12-2006, 05:31   #29
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Swagman John, you're dead right. If another boat can't see your anchor chain or work out that you are motor sailing then why are they on the water? But, as has been said, the insurance companies must be the driving force behind this as they will use any possible excuse to wriggle out of paying a claim. A few minutes putting up the stupid things may save you many thousands in the long run.

As for the cone, which I personally have never used, I believe that the Dutch autorities are very keen on this and have fined boats for not displaying it when motor sailing.

Now which locker is my cone buried in??????

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Old 01-12-2006, 09:47   #30
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SUGILITE, do you take down your black radar reflector or move it aft when you are NOT on anchor? I can imagine you could be in big trouble explaining why you were moving at 7kts while displaying black ball...
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