CQR Blues

[Bash]

It's quite possible that the mooring chain wrapped around the shank at some point in the past, fouling the anchor. It didn't drag until the big winds recently because of its extra weight, but at that point if you had a fouled anchor, it was begging to be dragged.

A CQR was not designed to function as a mooring anchor. One way you could possibly make it work would be to get an old engine block, and chain the CQR to the engine block to keep it from dragging. Then moor via another line to the engine block. The problem with such a setup is that it's difficult to get the CQR to set, because now you have to drag the engine block to set its anchor.

[Loquat]

What anchor did you end up with? Manson or Ronca or other?

[goincruisin]

Originally Posted by nv5l

Does this mean there'll be an upcoming addendum to your book?

Yes, the second (expanded) edition of Happy Hooking is on press and will be launched at the Southampton (UK) boat show. It should then be available on Amazon etc in about 4 weeks. - sadly, this latest 'adventure' came to late to make it in - next time...

[goincruisin]

Originally Posted by Loquat

What anchor did you end up with? Manson or Ronca or other?

We have a Rocna and an Ultra as primaries, a Fortress for soft bottoms, as a backup and as a stern anchor plus a Delta as a stern anchor for sandy bottoms.

[klem]

Did you really have the scope that you mention? The reason that I ask it that in a running mooring, the line returning to shore does not count as scope.

How tight did you have the shore end of the running mooring? If it was tight, the loads applied by the boat will be greatly magnified at the anchor points. This is due to the geometry and the fact that lines can only transmit a force along them. I have seen this problem in 3 point moorings before where the chains connecting the anchors is too tight and they see greatly increased loads. I would doubt that this is the cause but it could be possible.

[goincruisin]

Originally Posted by klem

Did you really have the scope that you mention? The reason that I ask it that in a running mooring, the line returning to shore does not count as scope.

How tight did you have the shore end of the running mooring? If it was tight, the loads applied by the boat will be greatly magnified at the anchor points. This is due to the geometry and the fact that lines can only transmit a force along them. I have seen this problem in 3 point moorings before where the chains connecting the anchors is too tight and they see greatly increased loads. I would doubt that this is the cause but it could be possible.

Thank you Klem, that is indeed very interesting and makes a lot of sense. I do tend to keep the shore end tight so that boats may cross the line without fouling their prop - the line is thus running along the bottom to the end of the chain.

And no, i do not count the line running ashore as scope - this is about 150 ft.

[Celestialsailor]

All I can say is that I had a 45# CQR in Hurricane winds for 2 days with 7:1 scope on my 12,000# sloop. It buried itself so deep that it took me 2 hours to suck it out. I have to believe something else is at play here.

[donradcliffe]

Never heard of an 80 lb CQR--is that how much it cost??

[minaret]

I use a 105 lb. CQR with all chain 5/8" rode. It has never dragged on me, knock on wood. I too can't imagine a small boat dragging on an 80 lb. CQR unless the anchor was fouled. My boat displaces 65k lbs...

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Never heard of an 80 lb CQR--is that how much it cost??

Interesting point. I see a 75# CQR and a 105#er but no 80. Hmmm...Is it a knock-off? That could explain everything!

[GMac]

Any anchor can drag and for more reasons than we could all think up. There is no way a 19fter would drag that set-up for any good std reason. I think you just had what is called in the trade as a OOSH, a One Off **** Happens. They do happen and can happen anytime on any boat with any gear.

Could be something as simple as hooking a old baked bean can lid and that is enough to throw off the best of the best, if such an anchor did actually exist, which is doesn't. Once saw a boat drag and try to reset a few times. In the end they dragged it all up only to find a nappy on the end.

[Victory49]

A 45 pound CQR has been on our boat for years and we've never had a problem with dragging. We use all chain rode and a 7:1 scope minimum, that plus good choice of anchorage makes the difference.


I Didn't know there was an 80 lb CQR, but I'm with those who think this probably fouled somehow, not really the fault of the anchor. Someone else might have hooked the chain and pulled the anchor out. Who knows. Using an anchor as a mooring is never a good idea, unless it's one of those 500 lb or more old ships anchors. You won't get some yahoo pulling one of those up!

Bottom line, anchors are not designed to be moorings, even for a dinghy!

We did have a CQR break off a fluke in a storm a couple years back, but it still held. We sent in pictures to the company (now lewmar as ii recall) they sent a new CQR no questions asked. Pretty nice service for a 30 year old anchor with no receipt!

I have been thinking of a 60 lb Manson, but no real reason yet.

[Seahunter]

Sounds fishy to me too. But "20' 3/8" chain (from our big boat) plus 60' rope rode. Max Spring High Water (today) depth is 15' - and I do know we are having spring tides now" says it all. Even a 7-1 scope though isn't enough for a 15' spring tide (and added swells). My analysis, you were about 100' too short on your scope calculations. Between the swells and tide your anchor was floated off the bottom. Do the math. Even at 7-1 (not enough scope for a storm) In 10' water that would mean 70' of rode. Add a 15' tide and at 7-1 this means 175' rode. Add the height of a 5' swell and you have 210' of rode. A 10-1 scope (recommended for hurricane/gale force wind/waves) would be 300' in 10' water, with a 15' tide and only a 5' swell. The chain keeps the anchor hooked, more chain better hookup. Use more chain. Best idea, put the dingy on the lawn and keep the anchor.

[teejayevans]

Originally Posted by Seahunter

Sounds fishy to me too. But "20' 3/8" chain (from our big boat) plus 60' rope rode. Max Spring High Water (today) depth is 15' - and I do know we are having spring tides now" says it all. Even a 7-1 scope though isn't enough for a 15' spring tide (and added swells). My analysis, you were about 100' too short on your scope calculations. Between the swells and tide your anchor was floated off the bottom. Do the math. Even at 7-1 (not enough scope for a storm) In 10' water that would mean 70' of rode. Add a 15' tide and at 7-1 this means 175' rode. Add the height of a 5' swell and you have 210' of rode. A 10-1 scope (recommended for hurricane/gale force wind/waves) would be 300' in 10' water, with a 15' tide and only a 5' swell. The chain keeps the anchor hooked, more chain better hookup. Use more chain. Best idea, put the dingy on the lawn and keep the anchor.

As long as the pull is parallel (zero degrees), you have enough chain. The extra chain will just help by adding some friction. I'm betting the chain was wrapped around the anchor, leaving 3 ft of chain and a fouled anchor.
Tom

[Seahunter]

Originally Posted by teejayevans

As long as the pull is parallel (zero degrees), you have enough chain. The extra chain will just help by adding some friction. I'm betting the chain was wrapped around the anchor, leaving 3 ft of chain and a fouled anchor.

Tom, I'm sorry; I was under the assumption the poster understood how to set an anchor, which I'm sure they're conditionally proficient. I will disagree on your choice of chain length, perhaps an assumption made by the OP as well. The theoretical minimum length chain is that of the proportional length of boat as is the weight of the anchor. IE 20' of chain and a 20lb anchor for a 20' boat. I can tell you most confidently that this combination will not hold on a 5-1 scope especially in a blow. A 5-1 scope requires significantly more chain, a kellet or other anchor weight to maintain continuous contact to the bottom. Shopping the discount aisle for anchor rode, especially for a length of chain can turn into a real problem especially when not fastened to the boat end properly. If the boat starts banging the rode the anchor can break free and drag a few feet until it sets again; repeating this action till the boat is on the hard. A proper bridle attached to the cleat(s) (not the windlass) must be employed in combined with sufficient scope and chain weight, especially in foul weather to prevent this action as well as dragging.
As for the CQR fouling, (if not a knock off) I just can't see it. Although not the best anchor for every bottom, the CQR repeatedly ends up one of the strongest (and best) anchors in almost every test. (It's certainly the number one choice by experienced cruisers). The CQR was designed by a recreational sailor/mathematician/physicist/oceanographer whom I'm pretty sure understood the issue of chain fouling. Unlike Danforth style anchors (that will foul in a fish's blink) because the original Danforth was designed to be set on the run, the CQR's geometry makes it almost impossible to foul. Even if you drop everything straight into a pile on the ground, the knuckle allows the haft of the anchor to roll over and lay flat and the chain just lays on top until pulled upon.
Yeah, no. I think this anchor just weighed itself off the ground due to insufficient scope as even a 10' inflatable can lift an 80' CQR off the bottom and it certainly would have been evident upon retrieval that the chain had wrapped itself around the fluke or plow.