Choosing an undersized Rocna Vulcan or correct sized Delta anchor according to guides

[gsuescum]

Originally Posted by Montanan

As to the force on the winch and the platform, the snubber should be taking up all significant loads and the winch and platform should only need to handle the load of lifting and holding the anchor.

One should not use a winch to break loose a set anchor. That is the surest way to damage a windlass, bend a roller/holder, or an extended platform from the bow.

One can use a windlass to take up the rode while you motor your vessel nearer to the anchor but then reset the snubber and let the snubber pull on the rode to pull the anchor vertically from the set position. Once the anchor is freed then one can undo the snubber and resume raising with the windlass. Such procedure avoids having dynamic loads on the windlass or the roller/holder.

That's all true and I agree that it is how we all should be pulling up our anchors. I cringe when I see someone using their winch to pull the boat towards the anchor point. However eventually pulling up anchors leads to surprises. And that one time is when we have a problem.

(I know a boat that damaged their foresprit when the anchor was caught on some post-Irma debris in about 70ft of water. They've been full time sailing for 12+ years and did everything right; driving up over the anchor while pulling up the dead weight of the chain. All went very well until "crack" and then they were out of action for a while).

[jonase]

Thanks for all the comments and rekommendations. I will definitely go with a heavier anchor.

Now I just have to make up my mind of either removing the existing plattform and having a custom built bow roller that does not interfere with the furler under deck or replace the plattform with a Code 0 plattform that can handle a 20kg anchor.

[gsuescum]

Originally Posted by jonase

Thanks for all the comments and rekommendations. I will definitely go with a heavier anchor.

Now I just have to make up my mind of either removing the existing plattform and having a custom built bow roller that does not interfere with the furler under deck or replace the plattform with a Code 0 plattform that can handle a 20kg anchor.

I would remove the platform. You will literally never use it in the Caribbean.

Happy sailing!

[jonase]

Originally Posted by gsuescum

I would remove the platform. You will literally never use it in the Caribbean.

Happy sailing!

I know....

But I will use it when I am back in 2021.

[gsuescum]

Originally Posted by jonase

I know....

But I will use it when I am back in 2021.

Oh... that complicates the decision. Best of luck with your travels.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by wrwakefield

I try not to put the rode strain on our bowsprit either. I mitigate the issue by always using a rope bridle [on our all chain rode] which leads to the two bow cleats- effectively eliminating any road load [in inclement conditions] on the bowsprit.

I'm sure you are already aware of using a bridle— independent of the bowsprit— and have reasons why it may not work on your vessel. In case this is useful.
Cheers! Bill

This ^^^^^.

We left out boat on a mooring buoy for a couple of weeks so had a bridle made up by the local rigger from some 22mm rope heavily spliced together, worked perfectly. Bridle just needs a chain hook to take the pressure off the chain.

[Seymore]

Originally Posted by Montanan

I was born in the USA, still trying to learn Yankeespeak. And marine terminology is an entirely different subject matter. Whoever came up with port meaning left and not wine should be shot.

<<Thread drift>> The Vikings called the one side of their longboats "starboard" meaning "steering board", since that was the side where the steering oar was located. They called the other side, which was always put to the dock otherwise the steering oar would be damaged, the "larboard" meaning "ladder board" presumably because they used a ladder to get from the boat to the dock. This terminology stuck with us mariners.

In the middle 1800s(?) the Royal Navy decided that there was too much confusion on the new radio between "starboard" and "larboard" and decreed that it should be "starboard" and "port". They had no concept of wine, they drank rum, so the rest of us are lucky they didn't call them starboard and rum.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Seymore

<<Thread drift>> The Vikings called the one side of their longboats "starboard" meaning "steering board", since that was the side where the steering oar was located. They called the other side, which was always put to the dock otherwise the steering oar would be damaged, the "larboard" meaning "ladder board" presumably because they used a ladder to get from the boat to the dock. This terminology stuck with us mariners.

In the middle 1800s(?) the Royal Navy decided that there was too much confusion on the new radio between "starboard" and "larboard" and decreed that it should be "starboard" and "port". They had no concept of wine, they drank rum, so the rest of us are lucky they didn't call them starboard and rum.

Drifting can be fun.

Depending on what we have brought on board and into which cooler the favored beverage is placed, we change our identification of which side of the vessel we are referring to. Somedays, there is the Chardonnay or Cabernet sides. Other days, Whiskey or Tequila, and then on occasion, Ruby Port or Tawney Port. Real confusion begins when we have the debate as to designating Lite Beer or Manly Beer.

[gsuescum]

Originally Posted by Seymore

<<Thread drift>> The Vikings called the one side of their longboats "starboard" meaning "steering board", since that was the side where the steering oar was located. They called the other side, which was always put to the dock otherwise the steering oar would be damaged, the "larboard" meaning "ladder board" presumably because they used a ladder to get from the boat to the dock. This terminology stuck with us mariners.

In the middle 1800s(?) the Royal Navy decided that there was too much confusion on the new radio between "starboard" and "larboard" and decreed that it should be "starboard" and "port". They had no concept of wine, they drank rum, so the rest of us are lucky they didn't call them starboard and rum.

Fascinating and makes total sense! That’s for sharing.

[p435]

Back to the anchor story.


I oversized my anchor.



Boat: 14m length, 8.3t deplacement

Anchor: 40kg ROCNA (not the Volcan)
Chain: 10mm marine grade stainless stell, 100m


I experienced 6-7 Bft last summer at sandy ground. Waterdepth around 9 m. 50 m of chain. Anchor did not slip at all.

[Sailor1957]

If this is your primary anchor and you want to sleep at night without dragging - always go at least one size bigger than Any manufacturers chart.
After reading experienced cruisers experience I bought a new Plow brand name anchor that sets every time and has not dragged yet and come up clean.

[StuartWeibel]

Nothing like Anchors and engine brands to spark a fight ;-)

I'll throw in my 2 cents (worth both pennies!)

I bought a Rocna Vulcan, sized according to their charts, and have used it exactly once. It was too much anchor for my boat, and getting it out of the really good-holding mud took driving on it at 2500 RPM, bowsprit almost touching the water... that sucker was really stuck. I decided to keep it rigged on the boat, one of two bow anchors. I use my Bruce for normal, and hold the Rocna in reserve as a storm anchor. Your mileage, and holding, will vary, of course.

Before you make a final decision, analyse every other aspect of your ground tackle. You sort of know the conditions you'll be in, or at least the location, and can talk to others about their anchoring experiences. But have you calculated your boat's windage? Is your rode all chain, or primarily nylon? (see the article on the Rocna site about the virtues of nylon over chain).

Some of my own mental machinations when I replaced my ground tackle for a trip to Alaska: Obsessing About Anchor Rodes

good luck

[ForGrinsToo]

Originally Posted by John_Trusty

This is not the ideal solution, but perhaps a work-around. Consider two anchors, one mounted on your bowsprit for short-term, low-risk anchoring - you already own this one. The second is a new Rocna (or other new generation) at 20 or 25 kg for serious holding. Carry this off the bow (low, on centerline) and manually rig it when needed. I suggest a bridle ready-rigged, and extra chain as well. This arrangement gives you the advantage of a spare anchor, and a larger anchor for those "oh ****" situations.

I don't trust the anchor roller when anchoring primarily because of the potential for chafe (if that is the right word, given the very sharp edges of the mount) when sailing at anchor, but also because I do not know its strength and do not wish to test it. I don't trust the windlass as a cleat, either. The 3/4" 3-strand rode is always carried through a chock to a bow cleat, with anti-chafe gear applied. Any time there is a likelihood of "oh ****", we set a second anchor from the bow. A couple of times, the "oh ****" has been upon us, but we managed to set a second anchor (Danforth). In essence, we live by John_Trusty's suggestion. Our primary is a "correctly" sized Delta.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by StuartWeibel

I bought a Rocna Vulcan, sized according to their charts, and have used it exactly once. It was too much anchor for my boat, and getting it out of the really good-holding mud took driving on it at 2500 RPM, bowsprit almost touching the water... that sucker was really stuck.

Stuart, this is a very common problem. It is commonly experienced by people transitioning from older generation anchors.

New generation anchors require some time to break out at 1:1 scope. From the boat this can be confusing. When applying even considerable force at a 1:1 scope nothing seems to happening. The temptation is to apply more force to free an anchor that seems stuck.

In reality, if you can look underwater, at a 1:1 scope the anchor shank is gradually rising. With some patience the anchor will break out. A steady force over time is the key rather than a very high force.

Please try your anchor again. Once is not enough. With an adjustment of technique you will find the anchor can be broken out without excessive force.

[Juho]

One more vote to having a big anchor, and a bridle to lighten the load on the bowsprit (do you have an all chain anchor rode?). You can also take the anchor inside on long passages.