Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 23-04-2009, 08:58   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Pittwater, Sydney, Australia
Boat: Swanson 38" 'SWANSONG 1'
Posts: 46
Chain Twist Clogging Hawse Pipe

I have installed a new vertical electric Muir windlass on my recently acquired, 25-yo, 38' sailing boat.
I use it mostly with engine running.
The rode is a long chain, no rope.


Chain is fed from the well to the windlass via an under-deck 50cm long, vertical, s/s hawse pipe.
Chain twist continually clogs hawse and stops windlass.

Anybody experienced similar problem?

Any solution?

Thank you for any advice.

Paolo
__________________

__________________
Paolo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2009, 09:20   #2
Registered User
 
bene505's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: NOT on Long Island - Look elsewhere! :-)
Boat: Beneteau 50
Posts: 453
How much height is there between the top of the pile of chain and the bottom of the hawse pipe? (Not sure I can help much here, mine doesn't twist.)
__________________

__________________
Email address is: b-cf "at" hallmont "dot" com

2000 Beneteau 505 "Summer Boost"
bene505 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2009, 10:49   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Seattle area (Bremerton)
Boat: C&C Landfall 39 center cockpit "Anahita"
Posts: 1,076
Images: 6
Is the chain jamming during pay-out or retreival?
__________________
"I don't think there'll be a return journey Mr. Frodo". Samwise Gamgee
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2009, 13:27   #4
Registered User
 
Jesse's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Oro Bay Puget Sound
Boat: Irwin sloop
Posts: 374
I had a similar problem with similar equipment and overcame it by shortening the hawse pipe. Good luck and please inform us with your solution to the problem. Jesse
__________________
Jesse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2009, 16:13   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Pittwater, Sydney, Australia
Boat: Swanson 38" 'SWANSONG 1'
Posts: 46
Anchor chain twists cloggin hawser pipe

Jesse, Rick and Bene505

Thanks for the advice.

There is up to a meter (3') between top of chain pile and start of hawse pipe.

Shortening of the pipe may help giving more space to chain to untwist.

Chain jams only during pay-out.

I suspect it may be that chain is a bit oxidized/salt and therefore running less easily.

Will try washing/scrubbing section before attempting all of the 300'.

Before going cruising, chain has to flow out quickly...will try your suggestions and let you know.

Paolo
__________________
Paolo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2009, 16:26   #6
Senior Cruiser
 
Therapy's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: W Florida
Boat: The Jon boat still, plus a 2007 SeaCat.
Posts: 6,894
Images: 4
Could it just have accumulated a twist?

If so, before leaving, lay it out and un-twist it.
__________________
Therapy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2009, 18:46   #7
Registered User
 
Jolly Roger's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Titusville, Florida - for the moment
Boat: Down East 45, Brigantine
Posts: 944
Images: 1
I would say Therapy has it right. Pay it all out then wind it in again, the gypsy will remove any twist and you should be OK from then on.
Just as a matter of nautical exactitude, the pipe you are all talking about is the navel pipe, not the hawse pipe. The hawse is a pipe running from the deck to the outside of the hull, used in boats with stockless anchors which self stow in the bow. A modern yacht, which carried her anchors on a bow roller, does not have hawse holes.
__________________
Jolly Roger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2009, 21:24   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Pittwater, Sydney, Australia
Boat: Swanson 38" 'SWANSONG 1'
Posts: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Roger View Post
I would say Therapy has it right. Pay it all out then wind it in again, the gypsy will remove any twist and you should be OK from then on.
Just as a matter of nautical exactitude, the pipe you are all talking about is the navel pipe, not the hawse pipe. The hawse is a pipe running from the deck to the outside of the hull, used in boats with stockless anchors which self stow in the bow. A modern yacht, which carried her anchors on a bow roller, does not have hawse holes.
She was right.
However, the many twists were at the boat end, not the anchor end, of the chain.
They accumulated as the gipsy would draw out the chain.
I undid the shackle holding chain to the anchor locker.
Untwisted. Shackled again.

It should be OK now.

This is a fantastic Forum and I am grateful -also for the important nautical English terminology, as an Italian born Australian!

Thanks all around.

Paolo
__________________
Paolo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2009, 21:50   #9
Senior Cruiser
 
maxingout's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Fort Pierce, Phoenix
Boat: Privilege 39 Catamaran, Exit Only
Posts: 2,606
The vertical Lewmar windlass on our Privilege 39 catamaran consistently twists the chain and puts hockles in it that accumulate on the boat end of all chain rode. Every couple of months I detach the bitter end of the chain and unwind the hockles. It takes a few minutes to reslove this recurring problem. I consistenly anchor out while cruising, and I have never seen the chain twist in a major way as it is coming in. I guess when you anchor out a great deal, the twists accumulate a little bit at a time with each raising of the anchor.
__________________
Dave -Sailing Vessel Exit Only

http://SailingUNI.com
http://maxingout.com
http://PositiveThinkingSailor.com
maxingout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2009, 22:59   #10
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
One thing that helps with anti-twist is a bow roller with a center grove or gypsy roller to keep it from twisting as it's coming in. Like the upper two.

__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2009, 06:45   #11
Registered User
 
bene505's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: NOT on Long Island - Look elsewhere! :-)
Boat: Beneteau 50
Posts: 453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paolo View Post
...I undid the shackle holding chain to the anchor locker...
Do you have any nylon line connecting the end of the chain to the boat? I seem to recall needing nylon line to absorb the shock of a fast-paying-out chain. There's a lot of weight moving fast. Having no nylon would mean a tremendous shock to the boat.

Others here may have more specifics on this.
__________________
Email address is: b-cf "at" hallmont "dot" com

2000 Beneteau 505 "Summer Boost"
bene505 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2009, 08:26   #12
Registered User
 
Jolly Roger's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Titusville, Florida - for the moment
Boat: Down East 45, Brigantine
Posts: 944
Images: 1
I was actually going to add, always make sure your chain is attached to the boat before you pay it all out, but I thought it too flippant.
You would think it would be obvious, but I once watched a very agitated fellow, who was trying to dock his power boat against a strong wind, bellow at his equally stressed wife to “throw the @#*+@! Line,” which she dutifully did. It landed perfectly at the feet of a dock hand, but unfortunately it was not attached to the boat.
Happy days.
__________________
Jolly Roger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2009, 12:26   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Pittwater, Sydney, Australia
Boat: Swanson 38" 'SWANSONG 1'
Posts: 46
A fabulous essay on chain hockles and bitter ends!

Well...so much wise information on what seemed to me a problem caused by a malevolent chain, makes up almost a short essay on preventing last minute chain twist hassles when anchoring.

And also for the cruiser with the foreign accent, also a lesson in the richness of English:

Now I know where the metaphor 'the bitter end' comes from; 'hanging from the bitter end' acquires suddenly a visual reference: the anchor well of my boat!

And the marvellous 'unwind the hockles' requires a new metaphor: have another drink to unwind the hockles.

(Hockle: A knob in cordage caused by twisting against the lay.)



Thank you all. A truly marvellous forum.

Paolo
__________________
Paolo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2009, 12:34   #14
Registered User
 
Cadence's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 6,059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paolo View Post
I have installed a new vertical electric Muir windlass on my recently acquired, 25-yo, 38' sailing boat.
I use it mostly with engine running.
The rode is a long chain, no rope.


Chain is fed from the well to the windlass via an under-deck 50cm long, vertical, s/s hawse pipe.
Chain twist continually clogs hawse and stops windlass.

Anybody experienced similar problem?

Any solution?

Thank you for any advice.

Paolo
Paolo,
There is another thread running on this problem. You may want to look at it.
__________________
Cadence is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2009, 14:57   #15
Senior Cruiser
 
Therapy's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: W Florida
Boat: The Jon boat still, plus a 2007 SeaCat.
Posts: 6,894
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paolo View Post
Well...so much wise information on what seemed to me a problem caused by a malevolent chain, makes up almost a short essay on preventing last minute chain twist hassles when anchoring.

And also for the cruiser with the foreign accent, also a lesson in the richness of English:

Now I know where the metaphor 'the bitter end' comes from; 'hanging from the bitter end' acquires suddenly a visual reference: the anchor well of my boat!

And the marvellous 'unwind the hockles' requires a new metaphor: have another drink to unwind the hockles.

(Hockle: A knob in cordage caused by twisting against the lay.)



Thank you all. A truly marvellous forum.

Paolo
You are correct.

I have learned quite a lot over the years, and I actually own a sailboat as of yesterday!

I have learned this too: That bit of nylon at the end of the anchor chain that keeps it attached to the boat has another purpose. If you are at the end of your rope (chain ) and have to disconnect in an emergency the rope will allow you to do so with a simple knife. If it is shackled to the boat it can take a lot longer to accomplish.
__________________

__________________
Therapy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Anchor Chain Twist Nightmare robifz Anchoring & Mooring 95 13-04-2017 15:50
Looking for Matching Hawse Pipe snorskyp Anchoring & Mooring 6 23-12-2009 13:19
Exhaust Elbow Clogging Frequently svnakia Engines and Propulsion Systems 23 30-09-2009 23:24
hawse-pipe - Gurus, need your advice vacendak Anchoring & Mooring 47 28-01-2008 19:22
Survey with a twist GrayGoose General Sailing Forum 1 21-03-2005 11:15



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 14:01.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.