Chain Stopper Installation Questions

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by Paul L

I'm not usually a fan of Lewmar gear, but their chain stopper is pretty beefy and reasonably priced. It also fits into tighter spaces.

How's the wear life on the 316?

[Marqus]

Thanks again Stumble, for explaining the nitty-gritty of HDPE behaviour under compression subsequent to my enquiries.

This thread has become very interesting indeed, morphing into dealing with the repercussions of anchor loads on deck fittings. Some quality contributions from many, with Uncivilized and Thinwater focusing the mind on real world force figures. It may well have been mentioned before in other threads, but I appreciate nice hard figures whenever they are brought up.

The posts drive home a message to me: when I plan to install an anchor stopper (and I am close to that), I have to confront a choice:

(OPTION-1) A Heavy Duty install: an installation that can take the loads imposed by a working anchor

(OPTION-2) A Light Duty install: an installation that offers convenience during anchor housekeeping activities, but can never hold a working anchor (Stinkybob alluded to this one)

A Light Duty installation can also be helpful in the event of anchor winch failure (pull up, lock, pull-up, lock etc..). The loads are fairly small.

But if you go for a Light Duty install on the stopper, you will have to go for a Heavy Duty install on your windlass (and vice versa).
All because you cannot guarantee that a snubber setup will never fail.

Or does someone, somewhere have a way to "nearly" guarantee snubber non-failure? Without simply using many levels of backup snubbers.

[skipgundlach]

The ALift stopper is a 'ratchet' sort; you can continuously raise the chain, and it will settle to the chain when you stop - or, there's a nipple which allows you to raise it out of the way; see my pix to see the hole by which you can lift that without removing the pin, or getting your digits in the flow.

Of course, once it's under load you can't, but it's there for convenience as well as to act (as we use it) for a keeper so the parts don't take a swim when disassembled...

[Cheechako]

Regarding the size, safety, use of the chain stopper etc. It's a good point. I have wanted to have them in the past and have mounted a couple. But basically... I don't like them.
A snubber is how to hold your rode, and I'm not sure one needs a stopper for anything really.
Of the two I've had, one was used only for holding the anchor in the roller. It was mounted below the routing of the chain from the windlass to the roller. Having my chain constantly rattle in and out thru a snubber just seemed like a good way to get rid of the galvanizing to me.
Unloading or fiddling with a stopper just seems a good way to damage your hands. You definitely want a stopper that either removes or has a latch in "non stop" mode. They often will flip over while lowering your anchor and bind tight.... shock loading everything involved.

[uncle stinkybob]

Originally Posted by Marqus

Thanks again Stumble, for explaining the nitty-gritty of HDPE behaviour under compression subsequent to my enquiries.

This thread has become very interesting indeed, morphing into dealing with the repercussions of anchor loads on deck fittings. Some quality contributions from many, with Uncivilized and Thinwater focusing the mind on real world force figures. It may well have been mentioned before in other threads, but I appreciate nice hard figures whenever they are brought up.

The posts drive home a message to me: when I plan to install an anchor stopper (and I am close to that), I have to confront a choice:

(OPTION-1) A Heavy Duty install: an installation that can take the loads imposed by a working anchor

(OPTION-2) A Light Duty install: an installation that offers convenience during anchor housekeeping activities, but can never hold a working anchor (Stinkybob alluded to this one)

A Light Duty installation can also be helpful in the event of anchor winch failure (pull up, lock, pull-up, lock etc..). The loads are fairly small.

But if you go for a Light Duty install on the stopper, you will have to go for a Heavy Duty install on your windlass (and vice versa).
All because you cannot guarantee that a snubber setup will never fail.

Or does someone, somewhere have a way to "nearly" guarantee snubber non-failure? Without simply using many levels of backup snubbers.

On the windlass install I go extra extra heavy duty install, and perhaps that's the point of all the post's on this topic. Light duty installation technique's just do not belong in critical gear work. I listen to the pro's then try to do the work twice as heavy duty. It gives me peace of mind and reduces problems in the long term, but does not preclude proper maintenance. It's hard to argue with the wisdom given here by folks who have been doing this stuff for decades, their experience shared here can save boats and live's. I truly appreciate that shared wisdom. Thanks guys and gals!

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

...A snubber is how to hold your rode, and I'm not sure one needs a stopper for anything really...

The snubber just takes up slack and shock--the stopper keeps you from loosing your chain... and your boat.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

The snubber just takes up slack and shock--the stopper keeps you from loosing your chain... and your boat.

Well, in 40 years I've not needed one for that, and doubt I've seen more than 10% of boats out there that even have a stopper. To each his own. There are other ways to avoid losing your gear.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Pretty much without exception, the heavy duty, quality, chain stoppers, allow you to pull up your tackle in "ratchet mode", by design, just as do the light duty ones. Only with more substantiality to their locking mechanism in said "mode". As well as in their holding ability under heavy loads. Which, given the effort that one has to put into a decent installation anyway... why go the light duty route to begin with.

I mean if you're truly using a light duty anchor anyway, it's going to be on a mostly rope rode to begin with. And thus, will be secured with a cleat. Non?


Plus which, most of us like to have the ability to deploy a 2nd substantial anchor from the bow.
Including a good bit of it's rode being chain. Which would suggest using a stopper for it as well. If for naught else, to aid in juggling both anchors, as well as it's retrieval via the windlass.

And since you're going to be beefing up the whole foredeck anyway, for your primary rode's handling gear (& deck cleats)... I'd say that at a minimum, it makes sense to at least leave room for the installation of a set of stoppers for the #2 rode. Whether you install them now or not.


Also, installing them doesn't mean that they need be used, as you can remove the critical operating bits (pawl) via the Fast Pin, which secures the stopper's pawl whenever you choose. So that if you have a thimble spliced into the rode, there's no problem in using it, even with the windlass. And you can install the stopper pawl(s) when it suits you/you're using a long piece of chain on the #2 rode.

Too, & more critically. A stopper is the last line of defense to protect the windlass, as one certainly doesn't secure the vessel to the sea bed with it. And if it gets buggered, you'll have a grand time hauling up your ground tackle.
More than likely, under circumstances when you need to get out of there in a hurry to start with.


Not to mention which, your primary deck cleats (or bitts, bollards, etc.) require a substantial chunk of boat to bolted onto also.
Right in the same piece of "real estate". Whether they're for docking, holding an anchor rode, or your snubber.

They too have to be able to hold the boat under any & every circumstance. Sometimes to include your boat, plus the weight of 2 of your neighbors as well, if you're rafted up alongside a quay wall... when the tide goes out, or it's blowing F8+ with some fetch.


PS: Just a "think" on the subject of "Light Duty". And it's worth what it's worth:
If you're using a rode which is substantially composed of chain, or all chain, & has a 30kg - 50kg anchor on it's end, how is such gear at all "Light Duty"?
Ditto if the wind is blowing more than single digits. And much the same could be said for anything but a kedge on a boat which is much more than 30' long.

Plus, do you ALWAYS see that 30kt+ weather system coming in, far enough in advance, in order to change over to a different set of anchoring gear... even when you're asleep? Or to put on a 2nd, heavier duty snubber, etc.?

[Terra Nova]

Fast pins should not be used in high load applications--use solid pins.

[UNCIVILIZED]

On the quality units, they're not truly Fast Pins. The pivot pins are solid. It's simply that on some, they have pins which allow their removal sans tools. Which is handy, when things are heading South, quickly. As they often do on the foredeck; in various modalities. Sail changes, & mooring.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

How's the wear life on the 316?

After hundreds of chain passes the pawl is scracthed and lightly dented. Functions like when installed.

[jeremiason]

Originally Posted by Stumble

Starboard is not suitable for any load bearing application. G10 however is ideal, far better than wood since it won't rot.

What bearing load is applied to a Chain Stopper?

[Jim Cate]

As, for example,. Some of the stories of the top end race boats, & their "structural bonds" becoming "not so structural", during the "Queen's Birthday Storm", in the Sidney-Hobart, are quite, ah, disturbing.

Not that it really matters, Unciv, but the Queen's birthday storm was in June of 1994, and had nothing to do with the S2H race. There were no race boats involved in that tragedy, although the one that was lost with her crew, Quartermaster, was a Lidgard design and had a racing heritage.

The high end racers that come unglued in the S2H are indeed a worry. Seems that a lot of them claim to have hit a whale when they start falling apart, not wanting to admit that their billion dollar baby just wasn't strong enough for dealing with high speed pounding to windward. For reference, we have made 14 southbound passages to Tassie in the same time frame (but avoiding Boxing day!), and have yet to see even one whale... and we follow the same route that they do.

Back to the thread: while a HD stopper is ONE way to avoid loss of gear in the event of snubber and windlass failure, it is not the only way. Attaching the bitter end of the chain to a strong point in the locker (something that all chain lockers should have) with a few meters of large nylon line (for shock absorbtion) will equally prevent loss, and IMO with less impact loading than a stopper will impart to the deck. The stopper, of course, has other benefits as described upthread...

Jim

[s/v Jedi]

To those who think their snubbers will hold the chain: good luck but check your insurance nonetheless

During hurricane Ivan snubbers ripped to shreds in minutes, with 80% of the rope diameter inside it molten from friction heat. When the snubbers are gone, they don't matter anymore anyway as there is no more shock absorbing: everything is bar tight and chain, shackle, swivel, windlass and chain stopper breaking strengths are being tested.

My Maxwell chain stopper for 3/8" chain has a 5/8" diameter hinge pin, as do my shackle and swivel. You can still buy the same model: Maxwell Chain Stopper

[Matt Johnson]

We just use a chain hook attached to a cleat with a few feet of dyneema.