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View Poll Results: chain length
30-40ft 15 8.77%
40-50ft 5 2.92%
60-70ft 5 2.92%
70-80ft 6 3.51%
80-90ft 6 3.51%
90-120ft 17 9.94%
120+ft 117 68.42%
Voters: 171. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-07-2007, 20:57   #61
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A kellet is useful in settled conditions but totally worthless when the chain becomes bar straight in heavy conditions...then you simply need scope to reduce the angle of pull.

I think the ANCHOR you carry plays a role as well in choosing a rode. Our CQR pulls out all too often on an all chain rode in heavier conditions..but since we switched it to a chain/rope rode...the extra stetch seems to help it hold rather than get jerked out (yes we have nice long snubbers).
Our main anchor is a Delta and that does just fine on all chain.
I notice Fortress only recommends a short length of chain and the rest rope.
The trick is in finding the right combination for your own cruising grounds...and if you are passagemaking...giving yourself some options by carrying different types of anchors/rodes.
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Old 07-07-2007, 03:48   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camaraderie
A kellet is useful in settled conditions but totally worthless when the chain becomes bar straight in heavy conditions...then you simply need scope to reduce the angle of pull.
I think the ANCHOR you carry plays a role as well in choosing a rode. Our CQR pulls out all too often on an all chain rode in heavier conditions..but since we switched it to a chain/rope rode...the extra stetch seems to help it hold rather than get jerked out (yes we have nice long snubbers) ...
The kellet / sentinal will extend the conditions under which the rode retains a catenary.
Putting a weight midway, on even an all nylon rode, is worth considering, as not only a means of minimizing dynamic forces (snatch) on the anchor, but also, as a means of reducing the anchorís lead angle.

Anchor Catenary Details ~ by By John Holtrop
Anchor Catenary

A Stormy Night on the Hook ~ by Gregory Walsh
Anchor Tips
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Old 07-07-2007, 04:12   #63
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Both those articles are misleading, although not necessarily "wrong", and do not draw entirely valid or useful conclusions.

The first concentrates on a limited context which is not relevent, at the expense of the bigger picture, and the second does not bother with any actual calculations, just blindly repeating old lore.

I will re-post this:
Chain, Rope, and Catenary - Anchor Systems For Small Boats
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Old 07-07-2007, 05:00   #64
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Thanks Craig.
I suppose this would also be the place to re-post Alís tutorial
Tuning an anchor rode:
Tuning an Anchor Rode

I have pensionably verified the effectiveness of a sentinel weight, in the 30 to 40 knot range of windspeeds. This was visual observation of the same rode, with and without the sentinel, over a two-day period.
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Old 01-10-2007, 10:19   #65
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One other thing that no one has seemed to mention is that multihulls often have much more windage than a monohull of the same LOA. Given that, the loading on the anchor for a multihull is probably higher in some respects. However, this is somewhat offset by the fact that multihulls are often far lighter than monohulls of the same LOA.
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Old 01-10-2007, 14:12   #66
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For example the manufacturer of the german "Buegelanker" makes different categories of weight recommendations for monohull vs multihull.
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Old 02-10-2007, 14:32   #67
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Multis are more weight sensitive, I would try chain and rope. In coral I got away with rope/chain as long as the connection was above the level of the nearest coral (go for a dive).
While chain is good, on multis (and smaller and lighter monos- used to be the average cruising mono was 35ft) sometimes it just ain't practical.
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Old 02-10-2007, 18:48   #68
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I know that weight is always an issue on multihulls and smaller monohulls. I still prefer to have about 75' of chain. In many cases, I can anchor out with almost all chain at a 5:1 scope or better.

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Originally Posted by dana-tenacity View Post
Multis are more weight sensitive, I would try chain and rope. In coral I got away with rope/chain as long as the connection was above the level of the nearest coral (go for a dive).
While chain is good, on multis (and smaller and lighter monos- used to be the average cruising mono was 35ft) sometimes it just ain't practical.
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Old 09-10-2007, 06:54   #69
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For example the manufacturer of the german "Buegelanker" makes different categories of weight recommendations for monohull vs multihull.
Aye mr. Pilot: Is the Buegelanker a copy of the Rocna, or is the Rocna a copy of the Buegel...?

When are ya going to see the light and go back to a monohull...?
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Old 09-10-2007, 07:05   #70
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What? This thread keeps coming back to life. I have to post my kellets article now, given the history:
Kellets or Anchor Angels / Sentinels - Uses and Applications

The Rocna uses the Buegel's roll-bar idea... credit where it is due... Other than that I am afraid you will not find any other similarities
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Old 09-10-2007, 07:24   #71
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The Rocna uses the Buegel's roll-bar idea... credit where it is due... Other than that I am afraid you will not find any other similarities
Both have a pointy end and your new stainless model is a direct copy of the material used in the Buegel....
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Old 09-10-2007, 07:27   #72
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Mea culpa
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Old 10-10-2007, 02:57   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsmith
“... This is not to say that kellets are entirely pointless; they serve other purposes.
1 They can contain and minimize swing radii in light conditions
2 They can help dampen "sailing" at anchor
3 They can keep a boat stationary when using bow and stern anchors
4 They can help ensure that rode is kept down and away from the boat's keel, rudder, and propeller ...”
If the Alain Fraysse representations are accurate, re 1 & 4:
How would the kellet minimize swing radius & keep the rode "down"?
To do so, would require some significant horizontal deflection between kellet & anchor.

***

As I’ve previously indicated, I’ve repeatedly watched my Kellet / Rode work in 30 knot conditions, with considerable surge and current*.

The kellet sat near the bottom between gusts (< 28 kts), keeping the chain (twixt anchor & kellet) nearly horizontal - thus NO load on anchor.

As gusts build (> 28 - 32 kts), the kellet rose, and the chain begian to straighten.

The chain/rope rode only straightened completely, when gusts exceeded 30 knots, for more than several (30?) seconds.

* These observations were made, on several different occasions, at Normans Cay, Exuma (deep, soft sand, long fetch).
The boat was a 6800# C&C28, sitting to:
(1) 35# Delta on 75' 5/16" G4 Chain & 5/8" 3-Strand Nyolon - with 20# kellet
(2) 15# Fortress (FX 23) on 30' 1/4" G4 Chain & 5/8" Nylon - 20# kellet.
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Old 10-10-2007, 03:39   #74
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Gord, what do you want me to say. I'm not debating physical facts, read the article. 30 knots is an irrelevent case, the anchor needs no help in those conditions. And, the rode being horizontal is meaningless as to the load on the anchor - it only means the angle is lower, the same load is still present, so your conclusion "thus NO load" is totally incorrect.

The sensible uses for kellets are as outlined, for containing drifting/sailing in light conditions, keeping rode down out of the way in situations like mooring stern-to-dock, etc.
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Old 10-10-2007, 04:11   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSY Man View Post
Aye mr. Pilot: Is the Buegelanker a copy of the Rocna, or is the Rocna a copy of the Buegel...?

When are ya going to see the light and go back to a monohull...?
Hi, CSY man,

to me it is clear, the BUEGELANKER was first on the market. The ROCNA looks pretty "close". But I believe the ROCNA has better holding values?
Even thinking of buying one.

Monohull???Wait until we have a "demonstration ride" on our Multihull!
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