Chain length

[Roy M]

Ooops! Defjef, I forgot to include that on my multihull are lockers on the wing decks (that connect the main hull to the float hulls). Since these lockers are above the water, about 3 feet, or so, they drain overboard. This is where I keep my backup anchors. The Danforth 12H sits with 50 feet of chain and 300 feet of 3/4" nylon braid in the starboard aft "wet locker", ready to toss astern in case I need to make a quick stop. The second backup will hold 50-100' of chain (not installed yet), a 20# plow and 300' of nylon, and it is located on the starboard forward wet locker. Also in the other two starboard wet lockers are the horizontal propane tanks. The port side forward wet locker holds the saltwater washdown hose and 50' of 3/4 hose for cleaning bird bombs and chain mud. If I get truly paranoid and want more rode and my 40# plow anchor for hurricanes, etc. I'll set them in the deepest bilges just aft of the centerboard trunk, with no intent for rapid deployment.

[jaydh]

Hello All,

Here's what we used....

38' Lagoon 380 - 200 feet 3/8 chain, 200'+ 3/4" rode. 40kg Delta main, 60lb bruce & larger Fortress.

35' Seawind - 150' 10mm chain plus 200'+ 16-18mm rode. 45lb plough main, 35 lb plough & a 70 lb heavy-duty SS Danforth type (found this one!). Also had 3 - 30' sections of 3/8" chain for the extra anchors.

Quite often we let most of the chain out. If we had room, it'd go out regardless of the weather. Tried to anchor in no more then 30' when possible as I had to haul it up by hand on the Seawind.

We always sail uninsured....the chain and anchor(s) are our only insurance other then our best attempts of not doing stupid things. That is why we accept the weight penalties.

Though a bit off topic, one thing I wished I would of learned earlier on was using two anchors opposed to one another with a 3/4" horseshoe shackle being the connection point. Basically a quick mooring. We ended up using this set-up alot....we like to tuck into tight spots for fun with little swing room. Also, this set-up provides outstanding holding if/when you need it.

This is what we did - the 35lb plough had 30' of the 3/8 chain on it with the 3/4" horseshoe type shackle finger tight on the end. This is on the tramp or catwalk ready to go (with line tied to the backside of the anchor equal to more then the water depth). You sail/motor downwind/current letting out roughly 60'+ of the main rode. As you come to the stretching point of that 60some feet you get up to the front and smoothly lower the second anchor in the water first with the line making sure the chain doesn't go flying off. Then you unscrew the shackle , slip the horseshoe bit around the main chain rode and pin it into the end of the chain (need another smaller shackle here as the 3/4" pin is too big). Finger tight is fine for casual one to three-ish days. Either wrench it on or dive it later with a tool if you'll stick around longer.

As the boat pulls back towards the main anchor from the cantilever action you carefully tighten up the main rode trying to keep the chain angle straight down....timing it with the windlass. This lets the big shackle fall straight down. You may have to help it with the motor a bit depending on the wind current. Snug up the main and either let it sit somewhat tight a bit or push/pull with the motors/sail and the two anchors will set with the shanks facing one another. The connection point will usually lift only 1 - 2 feet off the bottom if it's right giving you a great angle for the anchors to dig in.

It sound overly complicated, but once ya pratice a bit the whole excerise takes one or two minutes (unless you drop the second anchor bitter end).

You can anchor in spots with only enough swing room for the length of the boat plus a little more for when you slack off on the main rode to adjust for tide, swell, waves, etc. You don't have to panic in the middle of the night if a squall or wind change sneaks up on you. Works great for anchoring on the edge of a sharp drop-off too....letting the second anchor be the one on the drop-off side.

Getting the second anchor up is the biggest pain, but not that bad for the trade-offs. Either tie a float to the bitter end of that line coming off the backside of the second anchor or just cleat the bitter end to your boat (gotta be careful with the latter as you might wrap the main rode and/or rub you bottom paint and/or foul your daggers, keels or rudders).

When ready to go let out enough of the main rode to pull/drift/sail/motor the boat directly over the second anchor. Break it out and pull up as you see fit how to. Pull up your main rode and your off.

Conditions dictate the best ways to do it overall, but I promise you it is a god-send with many, many scenarios. Especially for cats that can/do/will get into tight anchorages (rivers, mangroves, coral patches, atoll stuff, other yachts, super-small inlets/bays, etc).

Ok, last thing.....for a quick storm or temporary mooring you can set up the two anchors as above and then just keep adding anchors with 30' or so of chain rode with the shackle method at the correct/equal opposing angles. Takes more work as you add anchors and dive gear helps, but absolutley a great way to leave your boat somewhere for a length of time in confidence or if you've no better options for a storm.

Hope this is of help to someone.....I read about it in a cruising mag sometime ago and truly wish someone would of taught me sooner.

best - J

[Keegan]

Originally Posted by jaydh

Hello All,


When ready to go let out enough of the main rode to pull/drift/sail/motor the boat directly over the second anchor. Break it out and pull up as you see fit how to. Pull up your main rode and your off.

Conditions dictate the best ways to do it overall, but I promise you it is a god-send with many, many scenarios. Especially for cats that can/do/will get into tight anchorages (rivers, mangroves, coral patches, atoll stuff, other yachts, super-small inlets/bays, etc).

best - J

Great info but I am going to have to read this a few times before it sinks in to what you are acutally doing with this proposed anchoring technique.

Where did you sail your two cats over the years? Did you ever regreat not having more chain rode?

Keegan

[GordMay]

”When shackles are used, shackle pins shall be secured to prevent accidental withdrawal.”

A "mouse" is a length of line or wire wrapped across the mouth of a hook – or through a shackle pin and around the shackle – for the sake of security.

To mouse a shackle, simply take several turns with seizing wire through the eye of the pin and around the bow of the shackle.

[jaydh]

Hi Keegan,

Never regretted the length of our chain rode. It just happened to work well for us. The few times I had to add line rode (for stong wind, deeper water and lots of swing room) it worked just fine....the 150some foot of chain seemd to guard against chafe-nasties on the bottom and the weight vs wind against the boat kept the line rode off the bottom (you could tell from the mud stain on the chain). The rode, in that case, made a nice shock absorber, too. Otherwise, stickin' to around 150' of 10mm on the next cat.

Btw, we usually put on a line bridle, too. The 'V' part is two 30 foot independent sections of line and the 'stem'(??) part is another 10 feet or so. This way you can adjust it as needed. A rolling hitch holds the chain great and isn't too difficult to get off quickly. For the connection point of the 'V' and stem we use heavy duty cable thimbles and a 3/4" Crosby shackle.

As a side note here, tried all kinds of hooks for the chain bridle and they were much more of a pain in the ass opposed to the rolling hitch.

When I read that article it took me three times through to half-way figure out what the lady was talking about. She mentioned big ships do something like this so there may be a correct name for it. Finally I just went out and did and then it made perfect sense. If you want, I'll sketch up a visual thing and will post a JPEG here for you....just let me know.

I imagine that it's easier to do this on a cat vs a mono...just because you're working between the hulls and the gap helps keep the chain from bumping the hull. Never tried it on a mono, so can't say much.

...oh yeah, sailed the first cat around SE USA, Bahamas, DR, PR, VIs and leeward/windward Caribbean islands. Then central america to Puerto Vallarta, Mexico. I think it's still with the new owners there.

Next cat did Oz, New Cal, Vanuatu, Solomons, Kiribati, Marshalls, Micronesia/Marianas, SE Asia, etc.

I've anchored in heaps of different bottoms and situations. Mud, sand, seaweed/grass, coral (hey sometimes ya just have too), rock, on steep atoll outside walls, rivers/creeks, etc, etc. We like to explore and see what we can wiggle into. For us, and by dumb luck, our set-up worked well.

I see Gord mentioned seizing....yeah, you want to seize up the shackles for sure if it's dodgey weather or if you'll be making a mooring with this technique. At first I was worried the pin would work its way loose on casual anchoring, but finger tight was ok. Sometimes, when the mood hit, I'd grab two Crescent wrenches and give her a quick turn whilst putting the 3/4" shackle on when rocks, reef, whatever where worrisome and the weather questionable.

Forgot to mention good shackles, like the Crosby ones, are a great help. I think they're made for crane use, but are galvanized. They'll go for at least five years with only a little rust in the end. They have a red pin and Crosby stamped on 'em. Didn't cost that much considering the quality. The cable thimbles were cheap enough too and far beyond the typical crap you get at the neighborhood marine store.

Best - J

[Keegan]

Originally Posted by jaydh

Hi Keegan,

If you want, I'll sketch up a visual thing and will post a JPEG here for you....just let me know.

Best - J

Wow, you are too nice. A sketch would be really cool.

Sounds like you sailed all the best places.

Thank you very much.

I would love to chat more when I return from a trip.

Thanks again.

Keegan

[jaydh]

Keegan,

My wife emailed the folks with the parachute set-up asking for a pic....will post it when/if they get back to us. Also asked another friend to take a pic of their brand new parachute. Both are monos....

best - J

[donradcliffe]

Last boat had 60 ft of chain, and rode was halfway worn through after 2 days of anchoring in 35 ft of sand/rock. New boat has 280 ft of chain.

[jaydh]

Hi Keegan,

Here's one sketch of the dual anchor-big shackle thing we do. Apologies if it's too cude and doesn't get the point across. I have another one for when the wind and/or current is too strong to do the bounce back routine. I think I need to make the JPEG smaller to upload...will do tomorrow...

best - J

[seafox]

Down in the Marlborough Sounds NZ where we cruise it can be over 60 feet within 20 feet of the shore. Everyone needs at least 150ft of chain here mono or multi.

[jaydh]

Hi again,

Here's the second JPEG....same thing except you don't have to try bouncing/motoring back into the wind/current that's stronger.

You do want to lay on your main rode with the prevailing wind/current (if you can) becuase it's much easier to get things back up. Just fetch the float or uncleat the retrieval line and pull the second anchor up anchor-first where-ever it's convenient on the boat. Usually you can start pulling/winching it up to break it out, then let out more of the main rode to get you over the anchor better and just pull her straight up between the front hulls.

Typing it out I realize it does sound like a pain in the ass, but it really isn't at all. It's all in the timing...lowering the anchor cleanly, getting the main rode/second rode angles right at first to let the shackle slide as far as possible down the main rode and pulling back up the main to get everything tight.

best - J

[Mareva]

Hi Jaydh,

Thanks for the drawings. We read your post with great interest last week and were just saying that drawings would help! Perfect!

Here's a question for you...
Your description sounds like your main anchor is off a bow roller and that your cat has a walkway down the tramp for the chain - so all faffing about (read lowering second anchor, attaching shackle, etc.) occurs right at the bow. We've got a FP Lavezzi with our (main) anchor hanging below the tramp (and so a few meters back from the bow). While we've pondered a few scenarios on how to make your anchoring technique work for us (perhaps running a pick-up line from the bow back to the anchor locker UNDER the tramp so we can bring the second anchor's bitter end back to the main anchor chain) we were wondering if that article you read had mentioned anything about setting up for our situation. I'm sure we could sort something, but if someone else has already invented the wheel (so to speak)...

Meanwhile, thanks for the great idea! We haven't cruised that much (yet) but have already run into (well, not literally!!! ) situations where this would have been useful!
Cheers,
Julie

[jaydh]

Hi Julie,

The article was written by mono people and they didn't say anything about cats that I remember. Our boat had the roller on the bow with the chain going down the catwalk.

On our next boat we'll probably run the anchor like what your set-up sounds like. I'm guessing to do this we'll have to run the second anchor bitter end with the shackle over the beam and back to wherever the roller is with a messenger line of sorts....under the tramp. Then tie in a quick release knot to drop the 2nd anchor shackle when we want to and the boat is in the right place.....plop it falls down the main rode and we pull the main rode back up a bit to tighten everything up.

Getting evrything up with your set-up sounds like more work...needing two lines for both the anchor and the shackle. Not sure on this....I really need to play with it.

For the next boat of ours we'll most likely make a special roller and rode track (dedicated to the second anchor/rode) to make this easy as possible since we use it so much.

Let me know if you try it and what you found works best please!

....one thing....depending where you're anchoring and why one would anchor this way....sometimes I'd just jump in the water with a mask and take the shackle off the extra anchor/rode and then pull up the anchor with the retrieval line. We'd do this when we were in 30 feet or less, the water clear and clean, etc. Many ways, many scenarios, many reaons, etc, etc.

best!
J

[Mareva]

Hi Jaydh,

Will let you know if we come up with any brilliant solutions. Unfortunately it looks like we're going to be tied up with another move later this year, so sailing may be put on hold for a bit...sigh. We may not get a chance to play with ideas until next year.

Anyway, cheers and thanks for all the help!
Julie

[TabbyCat]

We currently have 1 Delta with 150' of chain, and 1 Fortress with 20' of chain . Both have 150' of yacht braid easy stow rhode at the end of the chain. Our anchor lockers are directly beneath the mast, and we have a walkway and two bow rollers. We're going to add a second windlass, and at that time we'll add 200' of chain to the Delta and move the 150' chain to the Fortress. We may get a third anchor and keep the Fortress on the 20' of chain as a throwable/dinghy deployable anchor, we just not decided what the third anchor should be. Any suggestions?

We've cruised the US east coast & Bahamas, and will be heading for the Caribbean in a year or two.

On a side note, we have done the two anchor thing frequently over the last year. At one point, we were anchored in St Augustine, FL, where there is a pretty good current, for 2 months with the two anchor set up.

Ours method was:
1. Drop the Delta anchor,
2. Drop back about 90'
3. Drop Fortress anchor
4. Motor back up toward the Delta (carefully, with rhode between hulls)
5. Pull in some of the Delta's chain as we motored forward
6. Attach the anchor bridle to Delta chain at about 60' using the hook, (the bridle has a swivel with a big ring and a hook on it)
7. Let the boat settle back on the Delta
8. Tie the Fortress anchor rhode to the bridle ring using a bowline
Notes: It's important to not pull in the rhode on the Fortress too much, or the rhode will rub on the bottom of your boat. The swivel stops the chain/rhode from wrapping around each other.

To pick up the anchors, let out some on the Delta & drop back to Fortress, pick it up, then pick up the Delta as normal. We've done it in reverse as well.

Once we go two two all chain set ups, we'll have to try to horseshoe mooring method mentioned in this thread, or get two hooks for the ring.

~ TabbyCat