Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

View Poll Results: chain length
30-40ft 15 8.77%
40-50ft 5 2.92%
60-70ft 5 2.92%
70-80ft 6 3.51%
80-90ft 6 3.51%
90-120ft 17 9.94%
120+ft 117 68.42%
Voters: 171. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 12-04-2007, 12:49   #31
Now on the Dark Side: Stink Potter.
 
CSY Man's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Ft. Lauderdale
Boat: 2001 Albin 28TE.
Posts: 3,399
Images: 115
Quote:
with an 88lbs Rocna.
How do ya like that Rocna...?
__________________

__________________
Life is sexually transmitted
www.odincharters.com
www.susanhanssen.com
CSY Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2007, 13:07   #32
Senior Cruiser
 
schoonerdog's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2004
Location: annapolis
Boat: st francis 44 mk II catamaran
Posts: 1,174
Images: 4
This article explains the dynamics of textile/kellet, textile/chain/kellet and chain only. Rode Static Behavior 2. And no, monohulls, I didn't mean to exclude you! We simply would all agree that multihulls have less load carrying capability, are safer and more manueverable when light, and therefore need to keep their chains at smaller lengths than would a monohull of equal size. I was trying to find out in practice what most multihulls were doing. I think that the rode/kellet system which chain and nylon rode would be equally effective and perhaps even superior to all chain in everything except for a deep anchorages above sharp coral which has large tidal shifts because at low tide the rode might drift to the bottom and become enwrapped over the coral heads and cut free. I also think that all chain might be logistically easier for weighing anchor on sandy bottoms but not for mud.
__________________

__________________
schoonerdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2007, 14:05   #33
Senior Cruiser
 
schoonerdog's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2004
Location: annapolis
Boat: st francis 44 mk II catamaran
Posts: 1,174
Images: 4
there is a technique for anchoring which I haven't tried but also seems effective with chain. Putting out more chain increases your swing radius and thats not always wanted. Putting out a kellet would help keep your chain parallel to the bottom without increasing the swing radius, but its another heavy thing to lug around. I'd seen somewhere putting down the amount of chain you want for say a 5 to 1 rode, and then putting down more chain looped together to work as a kellet. Not sure what that is called or how it's done, anyone know?
__________________
schoonerdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2007, 17:59   #34
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Ventura County, California
Boat: Morgan Nelson / Marek 36
Posts: 52
On our Catana 39S we have 250' 3/8" for our primary, a 45lb CQR, we have a danforth 55lb with 100' 3/8" and 200' rope, and a third anchor with 60' 3/8" chain and 220' rope.
__________________
West Coast Cat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2007, 05:51   #35
Registered User
 
cat man do's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia [until the boats launched]
Boat: 50ft powercat, light,long and low powered
Posts: 4,409
Images: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by schoonerdog
We simply would all agree that multihulls have less load carrying capability, are safer and more manueverable when light, .
Bloody Hell, don't let the Lagoon owners hear you talk like this.

Dave
__________________
"Money can't buy you happiness but it can buy you a yacht large enough to pull up right alongside it"...............David Lee Roth
Long Distance Motorboat Cruising Ė It Is Possible on a Small Budget
cat man do is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2007, 17:35   #36
Registered User

Join Date: May 2007
Location: San Francisco
Boat: Lagoon 380
Posts: 43
200' all chain primary for me. I like on my cat that the anchor chain is stored pretty much directly beneath the mast.
__________________
swarren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2007, 20:26   #37
Senior Cruiser
 
SkiprJohn's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii
Boat: Cascade, Sloop, 42 - "Casual"
Posts: 14,192
So why are multihulls anchoring differently than monohulls? This is a serious question. I teach sailing on a multi and on several monohulls and use the same formula for all except I tell everyone to drop the sails at anchor on the multi in any kind of weather and condition whereas we can keep the main up and luffing short term on monos.
Did I stick my "bow" in where it doesn't belong?
Kind Regards,
JohnL
__________________
SkiprJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2007, 07:45   #38
Marine Service Provider
 
craigsmith's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 404
Images: 4
Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiprJohn
So why are multihulls anchoring differently than monohulls? This is a serious question.
Because they tend to be more sensitive to weight (read: chain) and can also typically anchor in shallower water.

------------------


I'll take the opportunity to post a link to one of my recent articles:
Chain, Rope, and Catenary - Anchor Systems For Small Boats
__________________
Craig Smith
info on anchors & anchoring | Peter & Kiwi Roaís website
craigsmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-2007, 00:23   #39
Registered User
 
Keegan's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: World Resident
Boat: Dolphin 460 Catamaran WONDERLAND
Posts: 399
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxingout
I am a Privilege 39 catamaran, and I used 200 feet of 3/8 inch high test chain during an eleven year circumnavigation. We regalvanized the chain twice - once in New Zealand and once in Australia. If I do another circumnavigation, I will use the same chain, but regalvanize it again before I set sail.

In your eleven year voyage how many times did you feel the need to add nylon rode to the end of your 200' of chain? Was 200' truly enough?

Keegan
__________________
Keegan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-06-2007, 20:42   #40
Registered User
 
Keegan's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: World Resident
Boat: Dolphin 460 Catamaran WONDERLAND
Posts: 399
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsmith
Because they tend to be more sensitive to weight (read: chain) and can also typically anchor in shallower water.

I'll take the opportunity to post a link to one of my recent articles:
Chain, Rope, and Catenary - Anchor Systems For Small Boats

Craig:

I read your article with interest. Your canadian distributor shipped my Rocna 33 out on Friday and I cannot wait to give it a try. I now need to make a final decision on Chain. My Dolphin 460 Catamaran will come in fully loaded at about 29,000 lbs. and I currently have 8mm chain (probably chinese chain) that was on the boat from the manufacturer. After reading several articles including yours, Dashews and others I am considering either G7 5/16th chain from ACCO for wait savings, or 3/8" HT ACCO, for strength over weight savings. I would prefer to go with the G7 5/16 High test but I am not completely confident that this is enough strenghth in a BIG blow. I would be using a nice long stretchy bridle up to 30' so this should give me plenty of shock loading protection if I choose the smaller size chain.

If I take your article at face value, it would be, but there are always multiple arguments to consider. I also found G7 chain out of Italy in metric sizes from Maggi and that fits my Gypsy that I currently have.

The other hassle with G7 ACCO is that it will not fit my European Gypsy-Goiot. I believe the only manufacturer that makes a gypsy for the G7 5/16 is Maxwell

I am starting to believe that 200' is enough chain, of whatever size chain I end up with and then I would have some additional rode with a long bridle and shackel attachement for additional lenght in severe conditions.

Anyway, what are yours and others thoughts on this set up?


Keegan
__________________
Keegan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-06-2007, 21:38   #41
Marine Service Provider
 
craigsmith's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 404
Images: 4
Keegan, thanks for the comments.

I would say either the 5/16th G7 or Maggi G70 metric equivalent (8mm?) would be ideal. I assume either would mean changing your gypsy, as if it was sized for lower strength chain it's probably 10mm? You do not say.

On the strength issue, do try to compare breaking strains rather than SWLs, as the hi-test will not be comparable to others.

As to length, I should say that 200' is probably more than enough for any cat, but of course it depends on typical depths where you intend cruising. (E.g. up to ~35' depth [assuming ~5' height to roller] you'll be able to manage at least 5:1 without the chain ever leaving the wildcat.) I would say it's probably quite conservative.
__________________
Craig Smith
info on anchors & anchoring | Peter & Kiwi Roaís website
craigsmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-06-2007, 17:43   #42
Senior Cruiser
 
Roy M's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Southwestern Yacht Club, San Diego, CA
Boat: Searunner 40 trimaran, WILDERNESS
Posts: 3,042
Images: 4
Searunner 40 tri

Previously I had 300' of 3/4" braided nylon with 100' of 5/16 BBB chain, on each of two rodes, plus a backup of 50' of chain on my 12H Danforth "emergency brake". After installing a Lewmar electric windlass, I have converted to 300' of 1/4" High test chain for the primary, and kept the 300' rodes as backups, with1/4" high test.

Not wanting all that weight forward when it wasn't needed, I built a trough from the forward chain locker, aft to just forward of the centerboard trunk. I've got a couple of rollers (used on trailers) to guide the chain when it needs to roll out in a hurry from the aft storage location. Normally, I carry just 100' in the bow anchor locker ( about a hundred pounds of load) which doesn't seriously affect our bow bouyancy. Incidentally, the terminal end of my chain is attached to 100' of 1/2" yellow polypropylene line, which is then attached to some light nylon cord. If I ever have to "cut and run", it's easy to let everything go out, slice the light line, and recover the chain later which is waving its yellow flag on the surface. The 1/2" line passes through the Lewmar as well as the chain, making recovery pretty simple, and since the chain is resting atop it in the after chain locker, it doesn't scrape up the bilge while underway.
__________________
Roy M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-06-2007, 02:49   #43
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,583
Images: 240
Roy:
I presume that you have to stow the rode (near midship) by hand.
Does it require an assistant to drag the chain back, as it is raised aboard - or can you dump it into the bow locker, then drag it back afterwards?
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-06-2007, 04:31   #44
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,413
I am curious as to the weight of your boat Roy and how the performance changed by moving the weight of the chain aft. I know that this makes a theoreticalk difference to have the weight mostly down and at midships, but practically what have you noticed?

Was your bow trimmed lower with the weight forward? My own experience with weight distribution on a 16k# vessel is that the trim was not affected much by moving some chain aft. When cruising the entire water line dropped a few inches from the weight of stores and gear.

I helped in a delivery and the owner decided to remove the heaving anchor and chain and place them over the keel. Fine and dandy before departing. But arriving it was a bit difficult getting all this set up "underway" and luckily we were able to pull along side a dock on arrival and set up the anchor gear.

Since many cruising boat are carrying a lot of tackle at the bow, I wonder what the downside for them is. Any comments?

jef
sv shiva
__________________
Sandero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-06-2007, 12:25   #45
Senior Cruiser
 
Roy M's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Southwestern Yacht Club, San Diego, CA
Boat: Searunner 40 trimaran, WILDERNESS
Posts: 3,042
Images: 4
First, reponding to GordMay: When I was designing the new installation for the windlass, I knew that I wanted several things that I hadn't seen on other boats. One, I installed up/down buttons in a custom box attached to the pulpit. I'll try to send a picture later. It looks like a robot head, so I called it C-3PO. In the box is a socket for a QUICK remote windlass control and chain counter. While I was doing the wiring, I added additional sockets in a variety of places, allowing me to operate the windlass from the cockpit, the aft deck (when using the capstan to haul the dinghy aboard), in the chain locker at the bow, and one more in the aft bilge locker. So, assuming I've withdrawn some chain from the 200' normally living aft, I can simply plug in the remote in that bilge, push the button while pulling the slack chain aft through the trough, and read on the chain counter when I've got enough aboard, then go forward to the main locker to make sure everything is falling smoothly into place, plug in the remote and continue pulling chain until I get to the muddy parts. Then I go on deck, grab the high pressure saltwater washdown hose, and clean the chain before it goes into the bilge. It works well and I'm pleased. As a sidenote, the boxes that hold the remote sockets also have up/down switches AND a bright red LED to remind me the power to the windlass is on, and to help see the process in the dark. I try to make stuff work easier for singlehanding or with new crew. The LED on the pulpit box is aimed at the windlass, giving it the appearance of a red nose to the robot head, and lights up the foredeck at night. I put it on the pulpit because I hated stepping on the deck buttons on other boats, only to discover that the power hadn't been shut off. People can get hurt badly with that arrangement.

To Defjef: My boat weighs about 12,000 lbs loaded, so 300 pounds of chain in the forepeak would make a lot of difference in its balance and performance. Therefore, most of it goes aft where it sits for its time of need, leaving enough chain to anchor in about 30 feet of water most of the time.
__________________

__________________
Roy M is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Selecting the Ideal Liveaboard Monohull Sailboat Stede Liveaboard's Forum 50 21-07-2011 12:43
broken steering chain capn_nik The Sailor's Confessional 3 29-11-2007 06:00
Rope to Chain Connections ? GordMay Health, Safety & Related Gear 29 13-10-2007 23:12
How Much Rode? Charlie Anchoring & Mooring 36 26-03-2007 17:45
Chain rode size NoTies Anchoring & Mooring 10 12-03-2007 02:21



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 20:54.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.