Chain Jamming in Windlass

[GMac]

Thanks Capt Mike but I must admit that there is an agenda.

I spend my days sorting out anchoring and mooring systems/issues both locally and overseas. So the above is said often. I am working on the theory that to further my desired career as a lazy bastard the more I tell you here the sooner I'll be fully immersed in my new business, 'Lazy Buggers R US Ltd'. Head office will be found just off some nice white sandy beach, look for a unshaven dude crashed out on the tramp of a 49ft Cat, that'll be me hard at work

Cunning plan don't you think?


Now gotta go find a 20,000lb anchor in a real hurry. Just had the call a ship just lost it's one and can't leave port until it gets another. Oh joy... not.... unless you're an airline in which case do I have a job for you.

[savoir]

I have a Simpson Lawrence manual so maybe I can give some ideas. It is for the Sprint series which looks like this.



I'm guessing that's what you have. Even if yours isn't quite the same chances are all Simpson Lawrence gypsies are built to the same specs.

Every gypsy can handle several sizes of chain and the differences between them are not all that great. I'm guessing again that your chain is either 5/16" or 3/8". Some can take 3/8 or 10mm and others can take 9/16 or 8mm link thickness. Styles of chain also come in different link lengths. If you just take ACCO chain, the 5/16 sized BBB has 25.4mm link ID and Hi Test 26.2mm link ID. Euro and Australian chain have different length links again. 3/8" links can be anywhere from 27.4mm to 30mm link length.

Maybe your chain links, apart from possibly being too thick for the gypsy, might also be one size too long for it.

For the Sprint 1000 the gypsy part numbers are 608RC60 (roughly 8mm) and 6010RC50 (roughly 10mm) and the Sprint 1500 RC172 (roughly 8mm) and RC162 (roughly 10mm). Lewmar dealers carry Simpson Lawrence parts.

Hope that helps.

[Capitain Mike]

Originally Posted by savoir

I have a Simpson Lawrence manual so maybe I can give some ideas. It is for the Sprint series which looks like this.

Attachment 29140

I'm guessing that's what you have. Even if yours isn't quite the same chances are all Simpson Lawrence gypsies are built to the same specs.

Every gypsy can handle several sizes of chain and the differences between them are not all that great. I'm guessing again that your chain is either 5/16" or 3/8". Some can take 3/8 or 10mm and others can take 9/16 or 8mm link thickness. Styles of chain also come in different link lengths. If you just take ACCO chain, the 5/16 sized BBB has 25.4mm link ID and Hi Test 26.2mm link ID. Euro and Australian chain have different length links again. 3/8" links can be anywhere from 27.4mm to 30mm link length.

Maybe your chain links, apart from possibly being too thick for the gypsy, might also be one size too long for it.

For the Sprint 1000 the gypsy part numbers are 608RC60 (roughly 8mm) and 6010RC50 (roughly 10mm) and the Sprint 1500 RC172 (roughly 8mm) and RC162 (roughly 10mm). Lewmar dealers carry Simpson Lawrence parts.

Hope that helps.

DISCONTINUED
The Simpson-Lawrence Sprint range provides the latest advances in anchoring technology with performance and style to match. An elegant compact design gives powerful warping and anchor handling for boats up to 21m in length. The Sprint vertical windlasses range from 600 to 3000 for boats from 6m (20ft) to 20m (70ft).




S/L Sprint 1500g Windlass

$3,250.00



Simpson-Lawrence]Anchor Windlass | Lewmar Windlass | Maxwell Windlass | Powerwench Windlass Sprint Anchor Windlass - Simpson Lawrence - DISCONTINUED

[savoir]

? ? ?

[Capitain Mike]

Originally Posted by savoir

? ? ?

Use eyes

shows the stripper enlarged.

and appears to be a differently designed stripper!!!!!!

The later strippers are in metal

[GMac]

You forgot to add a very very important bit

Originally Posted by savoir

Every gypsy can handle several sizes of chain and the differences between them are not all that great.

But it is very very important to make sure you get the right one as even though the chain measurements are often only slightly different they can make a big difference as to which gypsy you need to use.

There are 3/8" chains out there in use with a P measurement ranging from 25.5mm thru to 33mm. A lot of those are fading away as they are now old and defunct standards.

If you want give me the gypsy number, they were pretty good at marking all most all of them, a accurate pitch (internal length of a link effectively) measurement verniers are better than eyeballs and I'll suss our database. We have a database with just about every gypsy made in the last 15-20 years and what chain they were designed to take.

[sailorboy1]

Well I'm just going to admit to not understanding my windlass:

What I was calling the "stripper" is called the Control Arm (it's plastic) on the drawing (SL appears to call the "stripper" a rope/chain fleming?). It definitely has lost the war and is all bent up and I just torn it off the other day. I managed to get the part number and have ordered a new one.

But during this I started looking at the drawing and at some other Simpson Lawrence units (my manual sucks!). They all seem to indicate that the chain/rope goes around the gipsy, the Control Arm is outside the chain/rope so the chain is between the control arm and the gipsy, under a cover, and down a chain pipe sleeve.

When I got the boat the chain just wrapped around the windlass and dropped into the well so that's the way I thought it was. I don't think there is a hole that leads under the windlass down into the chain locker (I will check again but would think I would have noticed).

Is it possible that in fact the chain does not have to go down the chain pipe sleeve, but instead goes around the outside of the gipsy and over the oitside of that Control Arm?

[Cheechako]

The stripper shouldnt have to work too hard. Some chain fits a gypsy and some doesnt even if the spec matches. You might need to try diff chain, gypsy or windlass.

[Bash]

Are you certain that your chain and gypsy match? It really sounds like you've got a mismatch going here.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Bash

Are you certain that your chain and gypsy match? It really sounds like you've got a mismatch going here.

No. But currently that is an easy thing to check (in a couple days when I next go to the boat).

Meanwhile I need to resolve the other questions.

[Chief Engineer]

Did you post a picture of your windlass?

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Chief Engineer

Did you post a picture of your windlass?

No but it looks like this, but question really is about the other side

[savoir]

When I had one of those windlasses I used 5/16" G4 and it didn't stick once.

It is a Simpson Lawrence Sprint 1000 which was the standard product fitted by Hunter.

[roverhi]

Are we talking letting the chain out or bringing it in?? I have a similar Lewmar windlass and the chain occasionally jams if I let it free fall. The chain whipping around the gypsy develops so much centrifugal force that it pulls out away from the gypsy and jams. I have to either power down or keep some braking force on the gypsy so it's freewheeling rpm slows down to be sure it doesn't jam up.

I didn't understand your question about the path of the chain to the locker?? On my mine it just drops into the chainlocker through a puka in the base of the windlass after it exits the gypsy. No chain pipe other than the base of the windlass.

[GMac]

Originally Posted by Don Lucas

What I was calling the "stripper" is called the Control Arm (it's plastic) on the drawing (SL appears to call the "stripper" a rope/chain fleming?). It definitely has lost the war and is all bent up and I just torn it off the other day. I managed to get the part number and have ordered a new one.

Not massively uncommon sadly but that often comes back to wrong rope match, a nasty rope, a poor splice or a shallow and over filled locker. That little finger on the side is generally called the 'Pressure arm' or 'Pressure finger'. It's there to hold a little pressure on the warp. As a slight aside - if you ever get the warp slipping in the gypsy just check the spring in that pressure arm hasn't broken or gone soft. Some of the earlier ones were rather limp. If you suspect it has just gone limp you can try putting another turn in the spring to up the pressure again. BUT WATCH for the suicide component. Every which you disassemble for any reason on the bow while in the water does have one of those components and it will try to jump overboard........... never to be seen again.

But during this I started looking at the drawing and at some other Simpson Lawrence units (my manual sucks!). They all seem to indicate that the chain/rope goes around the gipsy, the Control Arm is outside the chain/rope so the chain is between the control arm and the gipsy, under a cover, and down a chain pipe sleeve.

Correct. The rode comes from your bow around the gypsy between the gypsy and the pressure finger then down the hole into your locker. The rode should be between the pressure finger and the gypsy.

You can remove the pressure finger and just wrap the rode around the winch 180 degrees and off to your locker but they weren't designed with that in mind so if you go that way it is a bodge up rather than what it was designed to be used like. If you want to do something like that get a Maxwell VWC, VW or similar.

The 'Stripper' is the small fixed arm thingy sticking out deep into the gypsy. This is to help peel the rode out of the gypsy and down into the locker. This usually is just the warp part of the rode and if a stripper is having to peel the chain out it would indicate you have the wrong chain or something is amiss. The 'stripper' can be seen in the photo above, it's that black bit just above where it says Sprint 2000.

The pressure are is on the other side out of site.

There is some visual and shape differences in the stripper and pressure arms designs between the assorted manufacturers but they all do the same thing so the above applies to all Auto Rope to Chain winches, not just Lewmars. There is the odd one with only 1 of those and the odd with none at all but they are mostly fringe no-name winches not commonly used by the fleet.

Now back to Don's issue. It sort of does look a little as if you may have a rode - gypsy mismatch. Lewmars Specs are one of the wildest out there and do contain some stuff that is just wrong, and some chains that don't actually exist and a couple that are called ISO, which is as useful as tits on a bull. ISO is a bunch of people, not a standard. The ISO (International Standards Organisation) over see and administer around a gazzillion different standards, a few that cover chains. So unless any specs say something like 'ISO EN818-3', the term is pretty much totally useless. 'EN818-3' is a chain standard which is administered by the ISO as is NF-E, DIN and a few other chain ones.

So it's common to see Lewmars fitted with the wrong chains.

And don't forget folks, if the box and included manual say a Blaa 2000 winch can use a 6,7,8 and 10mm chain it does mean 'as long as the winch was fitted with the appropriate gypsy to sut the chain size you want to use on it'. NO winch can run all of those sizes on the same gypsy, next to none will run any 2 of them on the same gypsy. Maxwell have cracked a multi-fit gypsy which does actually work but to date all the others haven't quite. Some have, say, a 10mm gypsy that will run a couple of the different sized 10mm's but none bar Maxwells latest will run all 10mm sizes on the same gypsy. A winch will run a few differing gypsies very happily so the Sprint 2000 pictured above could run anything from 1/4" to 1/2" as long as the correct matching gypsy is fitted to it. Hence if you look at the parts list it will show a range of gypsies, each one is for a different sized chain.

A bit like wet weather gear. No point walking into a shop and just saying 'I'll have a set of wet gear (winch) please'. You say 'I'll have a set of XL (10mm chain) wet gear please'. No point getting XS (a 8mm gypsy) gear when your body (your chain) is a XL (10mm).

Don, give me the gypsy number and I'll tell you exactly what it was designed to take. That number can be found on the inside (the side the chain sits in) of the gypsy. On Lewmars it is often is small print by the end of on of the gypsy teeth. On others it's often between the teeth on the cheek. Not all gypsies have a marking and on some the marking is simple to understand like 'P30', which means it is designed to take a chain with a internal length of each link being 30mm or a EN818-3 Standard, if in Aussie you call that a 10mm Aussie (AS2321) Grade L standard and about all the choice you have due to your very protected economy.

I'd exect Don to find a number a bit like RC0832 or something formatted like that. If you do find that number and have a 3/8" chain you do have issues, those 2 will not play nice together. That is a 8mm gypsy... bugger! Or if it's a pure Lewmar (as opposed to a re-branded Sim/Law) it'll have something like 203 or 301, something like that.

We have a massive database of every ones gypsies. You'd be surprised how often the winch dudes ring us asking what fit's the gear they sell

PS. I can write in imperial just metric is so much easier. You US guys need to dump that imperial measurement thing, it's a pain in the bum.