Chafe protection for dock and snubber lines

[exMaggieDrum]

This is a common topic but still hoping for that magic bullet. I can't find a magic solution for protecting my dock lines and anchor snubber lines. I have decided not to go with vinyl water hose. I bought some fancy velcro protection from Taylor-made but it is expensive and the interior velcro makes a mess of the line it grips. They are not as long as I would like and impossible to move once on the line without taking the line out of the chock.

I have tried to find old firehose but our local firehouse rarely replaces their hoses (despite everyone saying that is where they got there hoses). This fire department has hoses from 1982 - go figure. I like the idea of the rugged canvas cover over the rubber.

It looks like dyneema cover material would work for small line but it only goes up to 16mm which is way too small for moving around on even a 1/2" line. I have seen a comparison test with just tubular webbing used for protection but it seems to wear quickly.

So - anyone have any other ideas? Does anyone know where I can get firehoses?

[MarkSF]

The best solution is leather chafe guards. Sea Dog make a kit. Why leather? It is strong and durable, but allows water to soak through. Why is this important? In a major storm, the usual failure mode of nylon docklines is actually heating from within, caused by constant cycles of stretching and contraction, leading to breakage. Water acts as a coolant.

You should avoid any chafe protection that is waterproof, such as hose.

The leather is normally stitched to the docklines. I don't understand why you'd need to move the chafe protection on docklines. On my boat the chafe point is never more than 2 ft from the cleat. The line would have to stretch by 30% to put the chafe protection in the wrong place. (8" out of 2 ft")

[exMaggieDrum]

Thanks MarkSF. Leather would work for my static dock lines at the on deck cleats and chocks. Not so much for at the dock cleats when I have to either reposition the boat in my slip or at other visiting docks. But really want to be able to move them on an anchor snubber so I can adjust the line to not just give one section all the action.

From what I have read it is best to allow the chafe protection to "breathe". Interesting though - nylon wears faster when wet and polyester is the other way around (or may be v.v.). Although you can guarantee that the line will be wet in any case most of the time.

I may end up using leather as you recommend.

[JPA Cate]

MaggieDrum,

At the risk of getting a bit esoteric, we use 16 mm. nylon double braid for our snubber line, and it leads over the roller. At this point, IIRC, the line is about 10 yrs. old. It is somewhat slightly chafed on its outer cover, and has never had the luxury of chafe protection.

We have used clear tygon (sp?) hose on dock lines occasionally, it should fit loosely so that you can see what's happening to the line, I have seen children's flip flops (zoris) used on the dock cleats themselves, too, common in New Caledonia during cyclone season, I understand.

If you want to go for the leather, you can buy leather in bulk, and then cut and stitch to do whatever you want with it. Places like hobby shops sell punches and wheel cutters, and we've carried one aboard for years.

I think if I were going to leave the boat for a long time again, I'd want chafe gear for the dock cleats, and as the distances between boat and cleat vary with marinas, I think I'd probably sew velcro to the leather and wrap the line so that the velcro is only on other velcro, and only the leather touches the line.

Ann

[bstreep]

Like you, we've tried all sorts of solutions.

I think we like sunbrella best. It doesn't last that long, but it works, and it's cheap. We use leftover pieces that get sown into a sleeve.

We have plenty of old firehose - the kind from tall buildings. It's OK, but we've heard that the line heats up inside of them in a storm.

[edneely]

Originally Posted by bstreep

We have plenty of old firehose - the kind from tall buildings. It's OK, but we've heard that the line heats up inside of them in a storm.

Really? Why is that?

[MarkSF]

Originally Posted by edneely

Really? Why is that?

Read my post.

[NoShoes]

Key West Marine Hardware Inc aka Los Cuban
818 Caroline St, Key West, FL 33040
(305) 294-3519

They sell fire hoses, new fire hoses, cut at the length you want and at a reasonable price, last time I was there. I am sure they can ship to you. Fire hoses is all I use and last forever.

[sowwaninii]

Climbing tubular webbing available at REI. Works great and pretty inexpensive.

[wrwakefield]

Originally Posted by exMaggieDrum

This is a common topic but still hoping for that magic bullet. I can't find a magic solution for protecting my dock lines and anchor snubber lines. I have decided not to go with vinyl water hose. I bought some fancy velcro protection from Taylor-made but it is expensive and the interior velcro makes a mess of the line it grips. They are not as long as I would like and impossible to move once on the line without taking the line out of the chock.

I have tried to find old firehose but our local firehouse rarely replaces their hoses (despite everyone saying that is where they got there hoses). This fire department has hoses from 1982 - go figure. I like the idea of the rugged canvas cover over the rubber.

It looks like dyneema cover material would work for small line but it only goes up to 16mm which is way too small for moving around on even a 1/2" line. I have seen a comparison test with just tubular webbing used for protection but it seems to wear quickly.

So - anyone have any other ideas? Does anyone know where I can get firehoses?

For 30 years I have had great success using firehose. A couple of years ago I bought Chafe-Pro Yacht Series Chafe Guard and haven't looked back. [Available at Defender, etc.]

It wears like- or perhaps even better than- firehose, and can be installed after the rope/line is in place.

I also use it to attach the shore power cord to a convenient dock line on those occasions when that is the best approach.

I have yet to see any chafe, or any move from where I installed them in Nov-2014. Currently there are 8 installed on my doubled-up dock lines that have withstood 3 storms and 7 gales so far this Alaskan winter... [First-hand observation as I am on the boat this week...]

I hope this is helpful.

[exMaggieDrum]

Ann and all, thank you for your comments. For less extreme conditions I have found several things that work. I have decided not to consider fire hose with rubber liners or with any other rubber, vinyl, or polyester hose. Too many stories of the rubber heating up in extreme conditions, and it does not weather well. I have had trouble running it though chocks at times too.

I don't think everyone has the extreme condition we have at our marina slip in the winters. Three days of 40kt winds with gusts to 60kt are, unfortunately, not unusual, and not an exaggeration either. Dock lines are tested to their limits. I thought 12-braid would be great based on what I had heard but it did not, at least without adequate chafe protection. I have had to moor in gale and storm conditions at anchor multiple times (although never a hurricane or cyclone to date) and have great respect for the beating that snubbers take at anchor. Very scary actually even on the boat since I could not power in to the wind to move snubbers or chafe protection.

I just found a source for used fire hose of different types here: Used Fire Hose | Used Fire Hoses | Used Fire Hoses for Sale | Fire Hose Supply

I ordered 50' of used hose for $25 ($38 with shipping). I think I will cut it in half and size to the rope and length I need, and use small cordage to secure like you would a leather piece.

This seems pretty cost effective and seems to be the most recommended. I will see how it performs at my dock and report back after the chafe season is over. The wear at the dock exceeds what I would expect with a gale at anchor, unfortunately.

I seem to have the best performance with standard three-strand line. It gets stiff and can hockle but for the dock lines I will use it. I would like to use something more supple for an anchor snubber line though and perhaps the double-braid would be the right solution. It is not as stretchy as I would like but a longer length would help that.

I have also had good success with the rubber "springs" that you weave the line through on both ends. It works very well on the dock lines and on snubbers. It is a pain to use on snubbers though as you cannot adjust its position once installed. The line has to be cut if there is any wear at the device or the length cannot be adjusted for damage elsewhere. Not easy to put on either but it gives really good shock protection. I do not know how well it would stand up to extreme conditions over several days or storm+ conditions for shorter periods.

[roygee]

split bluegene legs with velcro sewn longways, to attach the leg of gene material back together around whatever you want to protect. Some ties attached to hold to the cleat, etc.

[Stumble]

For traveling lines or home port lines?

For home port lines we use a 5/8" wire lead that runs from the dock to an eye. The dock lines are then attached to the eye by an eye splice. This stays in place permanently, and pretty much eliminates chaff as a concern.

For traveling lines we do the same thing but with 1/2" dyneema, with eye splices in each end. They do chaff more than wire (obviously), but don't show any wear after four or five years of use. The dyneema is chaff resistant enough that it has polished the concrete dock where the boat ties up, but is flexable enough to carry with us.

[UNCIVILIZED]

For snubbing lines, Brait might be a bit better choice. It's an 8-strand line, purposely designed for anchoring, & mooring apps, & to be VERY energy absorbent for just such uses. http://www.apsltd.com/c-1565-nylon-brait-yale.aspx

Regarding the heat vs. stretching thing, you can try using Regatta Braid, for your standard connection line type. It's a Dacron single braid with a good bit of stretch to it, especially compared to other things Dacron. http://www.teufelberger.com/en/products/marine/new-england-ropes/cruising/regatta-braid.html

And of course the "Ultimate” mooring connection lines are ropes such as Polydyne, & Polydyne II, etc. - Rope blends which were created/designed specifically for/to be storm mooring pendants. http://www.defender.com/category.jsp?path=-1|2276108&id=2226886

On the higher wear areas of your lines, consider coating/painting them with Maxi-Jacket, or Maxi-Jacket II. It's pretty much the same as the slippery coating which comes on high-modulus, single braid lines. Said compounds are formulated to enhance abrasion, & UV resistance. http://www.yalecordage.com/pleasure-marine-ropes/coatings.html
Albeit, you may wish to split a bottle of this stuff with a few folks on your dock/sailing friends, as most of the sizes available are expensive (albeit, far cheaper than purchasing new dock lines all of the time) http://www.apsltd.com/c-1631-yale-maxi-jacket.aspx

The next option to look at are the many varieties of "cover only", rope jacket material/sleeves, which are purpose designed for chafe protection. Specifically, sleeves made out of such materials as; Spectra, Nomex, Kevlar, etc. And there are larger sizes produced than just what’s seen here http://www.apsltd.com/c-1569-coveronly.aspx
You can also "recycle" the covers found on other, large lines which are well past middle age. As you only need a few feet of them in a given locale on a mooring line (for chafe protection).

Also, there are the Heavy Duty & Professional Grade line cover resources, some of which are found in other (similar fields) such as this following:
Arborist type Rigging Equipment sources http://www.bartlettman.com and in other fields, like... Fire & Outdoor Rescue gear.For instance www.CMCRescue.com

Plus, New England Ropes offerings too. http://www.neropes.com/Interim%20Page%20Alternate.html
As well as those by Samson Ropes - http://samsonrope.com/Pages/ChafeProtection.aspx

And, obviously, push come to shove, it rarely hurts to go straight to the (rope) manufacturers. http://samsonrope.com/Pages/Default.aspx
http://www.yalecordage.com/
http://neropes.com/Interim%20Page%20Alternate.html

One other idea would be to have your sailmaker sew some custom Spectra anti-chafe sleeves from some of the wider widths of Spectra Webbing.


PS: Just because PVC hose comes from the factory as an impermeable tube doesn't mean that it has to stay that way. I haven't done any tests, & statistical analysis on this. But with some decent sized holes cut or melted into it in a number of spots other than on/in very close to the primary chafe point, I'd imagine that the nylon rope inside of it would stay at a more manageable temp. Especially between water falling out of the sky, & or via repeated soakings by waves.
It's just a thought.

[fjwiley1]

Fire Hose from e-bay. Prices are usually very good even with shipping. Before use,Remove the inner rubber. It is Aggrevating to pull out. I use it for all my lines and they show little to no chafe.

Sailing is about all these choices we have to make.....