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Old 16-03-2008, 04:12   #16
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Originally Posted by craigsmith View Post
The other element is the lack of lead in the tip, although hardly a unique feature.
"Hardely unique"? More like a universal feature of all anchors! Why does this keep coming up? There aren't any widely distributed anchors made today that have lead in them.

Craig, you have a great product, why do you keep saying this stupid stuff?

There is so much bogus green marketing out there, it's hardely fair to pick on the anchors. Just you wait, when GM comes out the the Hybrid Hummer. It will get 15 MPG instead of 8, so it will be "green"
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Old 16-03-2008, 06:30   #17
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"Hardely unique"? More like a universal feature of all anchors! Why does this keep coming up? There aren't any widely distributed anchors made today that have lead in them.

Craig, you have a great product, why do you keep saying this stupid stuff?

There is so much bogus green marketing out there, it's hardely fair to pick on the anchors. Just you wait, when GM comes out the the Hybrid Hummer. It will get 15 MPG instead of 8, so it will be "green"
I have to agree.

"Green" is the latest marketing buzz word. It's silly to apply it to anchors. The Delta that came with my boat sets just like the picture of the Rocna setting in Craig's post. How do I know? I've been anchoring in 5ft or so of water and am able to clearly watch it set.

While I'm a big fan of marketing (learning how to do it well in NYC has helped me with my small businesses), once you know it well, you can see right through it. I mean look at my own marketing scam from a couple years ago... I called my charter business a B&B and filled up every single day that summer that I could stand to work. Did I have "sailors" or "yachties" or "charter customers?" Hell no... I had tourists looking for a place to stay on vacation. It's all marketing.

"Environmental" anchors are nothing but a marketing scam, designed to capitalize on the latest whim of the consumer (sucker).
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Old 16-03-2008, 06:48   #18
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I called my charter business a B&B and filled up every single day that summer that I could stand to work. Did I have "sailors" or "yachties" or "charter customers?" Hell no... I had tourists looking for a place to stay on vacation. It's all marketing.
That's good

Green Anchors? Marketing B#rrocks
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Old 16-03-2008, 10:10   #19
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I called my charter business a B&B and filled up every single day that summer that I could stand to work.


(sucker).
You are one smart Mo Fo!
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Old 16-03-2008, 15:21   #20
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Sorry, Sean: I don't see how that's a "scam." You marketed a unique service to draw customers in a boutique industry where there was plenty of competition and novelty is a selling plus, and were successful. You didn't mis-represent yourself (you were actually able to supply all the haute cuisine and amenities you advertised). Where did the scamming occur?

I know you're not a fan of Capitalism: do you consider any capitalist event a scam, even when entered into freely, a fair exchange occurs, and each principal gets what he expects?

Or do you think you over-charged for the experience? Remember, a product/service's value is what the market is willing to pay. That you were booked seems to suggest that there were plenty of customers who thought your pricing reasonable.

Don't wanna sound harsh or slice definitions too thinly; just don't get what you mean.
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Old 16-03-2008, 15:34   #21
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Sorry, Sean: I don't see how that's a "scam." You marketed a unique service to draw customers in a boutique industry where there was plenty of competition and novelty is a selling plus, and were successful. You didn't mis-represent yourself (you were actually able to supply all the haute cuisine and amenities you advertised). Where did the scamming occur?

I know you're not a fan of Capitalism: do you consider any capitalist event a scam, even when entered into freely, a fair exchange occurs, and each principal gets what he expects?

Or do you think you over-charged for the experience? Remember, a product/service's value is what the market is willing to pay. That you were booked seems to suggest that there were plenty of customers who thought your pricing reasonable.

Don't wanna sound harsh or slice definitions too thinly; just don't get what you mean.
Thanks for the compliment Jeff. I guess it's not a scam, per se. Rather than "marketing scam", I should have used the words, "slick marketing", which have an implied derogatory meaning. They sort of pull a fast one making some pretty outrageous claims. My point in posting my own marketing up was to show that "environmentally friendly" anchors are just "slick marketing", as my "bed and breakfast" was just slick marketing for what we all consider a charter.
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Old 16-03-2008, 20:14   #22
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So, you are one Slick Mo Fo!
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Old 16-03-2008, 22:15   #23
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"Hardely unique"? More like a universal feature of all anchors! Why does this keep coming up? There aren't any widely distributed anchors made today that have lead in them.
There are a number of anchors out there with lead inserts, namely old genuine CQRs and plough knock-offs. Ask any galvanizer who routinely deals with anchors. Additionally, our primary competitor has a large amount of lead in every anchor's tip.

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There is so much bogus green marketing out there, it's hardely fair to pick on the anchors. Just you wait, when GM comes out the the Hybrid Hummer. It will get 15 MPG instead of 8, so it will be "green"
In the feedback that is out there, the complaints usually relate to drag tracks. The photos above should clearly illustrate how some anchors minimize the damage done to the seabed to a small footprint, rather than a long plowed furrow across the surface of the seabed.
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Old 16-03-2008, 22:30   #24
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Who complains Craig? I doubt anyone would be sending feedback anywhere about the fact their anchor is leaving drag marks. I could understand conservation authorities complaining about damage to Corals etc. Besides, CQR's don't always leave long furrows and in bottoms that do allow the ploughs to plough, Rocnas and Supremes still pull through leaving a furrow.
And how is Lead in a tip a problem. It is incased inside the tip. One could suggest fishing is more harmful to the environment for the number of lead sinkers that must be on the bottom.
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Old 16-03-2008, 23:21   #25
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Additionally, our primary competitor has a large amount of lead in every anchor's tip.
Which is, of course, the only reason you mentioned it .

They produce plenty of anchors that do not have lead in them. So it is a LIE and foolish deception aimed at the gullible to claim that "every" anchor of theirs has lead in it as you have.

Is definitely about time you went away until you have had time to grown up. Perhaps he should be sent away as he drivels this tripe on every forum he gets access to?
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Old 17-03-2008, 03:42   #26
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Maybe I'm not seeing the big picture here, but how can a big hunk of metal that does absolutely nothing but dig into the ground be "environmentally friendly?"

It's like saying your hammer or shovel is environmentally friendly. I don't get it...

(Ad taken from the CF Google Ads. Keeping things even, I also saw a Rocna ad up there as well.)
I might have made a" fopar".I read your thread as"Is there such a thing as.....".Well there is.Reef anchor for reefs,plough for sand and so on.I don't think I have ever read where an anchor making Co has ever stated "Thier"anchor "Never"draggs.

As to what material the anchor is made of may be of more importance to a certain enviroment aspect than the amount of dragg and damage but,It seems to me that,a lot of it all would all come down to the user's abillity to set thier anchor right,as opposed to the anchor manafacturer's claims.Otherwise,you wouldn't have some people saying(This anchor works fine for ME)and others saying(It dosen't)It's all down to expertise.Surely someone out there has dragged a "Manson"anchor,and created an enviromental problem.It's probably more importent for the user to be more enviromentally friendly than to believe the claims on an addvert. Allthough,sometimes,They might have something."Is that worded better than my original post?'Mudnut.
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Old 17-03-2008, 06:32   #27
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True, Mudnut.

I guess I was hoping that the Manson guy would come on and explain why they chose "environmentally friendly" as a marketing bullet point.

Could be dragging claims, could be material it's made out of, could be that they row the anchor to their customers across the sea rather than use fossil fuel for transport, or could be a solar foundry! ha ha

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Old 17-03-2008, 14:06   #28
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Ok I will put the facts down as we have researched them.

1. There is no lead in a Supreme. In 1990 there was 800,000lbs of lead being put in anchors around the world each year. Today it is down to an estimated 240,000lbs solely because of anchors like the Supreme.

2. In 1990 there was an estimated 20,000,000 anchors in use at any one time. At an average weight of 8.6lbs of anchor and 0.5lbs of zinc-coating, this equates to move than 1,000,000 of zinc corroding just on anchors. Stainless eliminates this problem.

3. The Supreme doesnt "plough" like other anchors. This type of anchor reaches its maximum hold without having to dig deep like the plough and Bruce Type. This "ploughing" is what damages seabeds.

4. Our anchors are made in New Zealand where we have stringent polution policies in place. Anchors made in places like China and India are manufactured without such regulations. The Yangtze river has increased in temperature by degrees because of the electrical demand being placed on it. Its an environmental shocker.

5. We also recycle ALL of our companies waste. Its sorted, packed and sent to 7 different facilities to be re-used. Even the export packaging we use is 100% renewable and recyclable.

I know "environmentally friendly" is a bit of a sales line nowdays but its what people demand from products. People on this forum should be the first to embrace companies that try their best with regard to the environment even if its little things like anchors. In our lifetimes we've seen some shocking environmental situations arise - especially with the oceans.
People can continue to buy cheap Chinese products and think they are powerless to watch 2/3rds of the marine life in rivers like the Yangtze die - OR they can actually do a wee bit of research on companies before buying their products.

I dont think it matters if its a paperclip, a car or an anchor - we should be made to be as clean as we can.
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Old 17-03-2008, 14:20   #29
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Wow. Thank you for this reply. Now, I can say I understand why your marketing says, "environmentally friendy." It's good to hear you put so much effort into doing things the "right way." That seems to be a way of doing business that is becoming more and more scarce.

If you do follow this forum much, you may already know not to get me started on Chinese junk... ha ha

I'd buy your anchor over a Chinese anchor any time. Good points about doing something positive with your purchase dollars vs. complaining about the pollution in the Yangtze river and then going to buy a Chinese knock off anchor.

Again, thank you for this post. I'd say it speaks volumes about your company.


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Originally Posted by Manson Anchors View Post
Ok I will put the facts down as we have researched them.

1. There is no lead in a Supreme. In 1990 there was 800,000lbs of lead being put in anchors around the world each year. Today it is down to an estimated 240,000lbs solely because of anchors like the Supreme.

2. In 1990 there was an estimated 20,000,000 anchors in use at any one time. At an average weight of 8.6lbs of anchor and 0.5lbs of zinc-coating, this equates to move than 1,000,000 of zinc corroding just on anchors. Stainless eliminates this problem.

3. The Supreme doesnt "plough" like other anchors. This type of anchor reaches its maximum hold without having to dig deep like the plough and Bruce Type. This "ploughing" is what damages seabeds.

4. Our anchors are made in New Zealand where we have stringent polution policies in place. Anchors made in places like China and India are manufactured without such regulations. The Yangtze river has increased in temperature by degrees because of the electrical demand being placed on it. Its an environmental shocker.

5. We also recycle ALL of our companies waste. Its sorted, packed and sent to 7 different facilities to be re-used. Even the export packaging we use is 100% renewable and recyclable.

I know "environmentally friendly" is a bit of a sales line nowdays but its what people demand from products. People on this forum should be the first to embrace companies that try their best with regard to the environment even if its little things like anchors. In our lifetimes we've seen some shocking environmental situations arise - especially with the oceans.
People can continue to buy cheap Chinese products and think they are powerless to watch 2/3rds of the marine life in rivers like the Yangtze die - OR they can actually do a wee bit of research on companies before buying their products.

I dont think it matters if its a paperclip, a car or an anchor - we should be made to be as clean as we can.
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Old 18-03-2008, 02:55   #30
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While the fact that these anchor designs do alleviate the long furrows left by the plough type, one issue has not been addressed and that is of the chain. I think the chain dragging around the bottom does more damage than a Furrow does. A furrow breaks the ground, but the ground falls back in place with relative ease. While the chain dragging over a bottom, especially in tide and wind shifts causes damage over a greater area. It may not be as destructive as the anchor ploughing a furrow, but the chains impact is over a very large area. This area of impact is no more or no less than that of a Rocna or Supreme. (I used names so as somebody doesn't think I am picking on them)
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