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Old 04-12-2018, 15:30   #1
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Budget anchoring (?)

Hello!
I've been reading on this forum for a while but this is the first time posting.

Anyway, I got a 31 ft Beason (more info here), a Swedish-built sailboat from the late '70s that I'm fitting for an Atlantic Crossing next year. The plan is to sail from Europe to the Caribbean and then cruise around for at least a year.
This is on a tight budget and I am now considering anchor options.

I currently own a 10kg Bruce and a 10kg Danforth anchor, 5 meters of chain and some anchor rope. No windlass.

I've been thinking about two options:
  1. Expensive option:
    Keep the Bruce as a stern anchor, scrap the Danforth and invest in something like a Mantus anchor which I then would up-size + 50 meters of chain and a Windlass to use in any anchoring situation. Would an up-sized Mantus anchor be enough in stormy weather?
  2. Or the cheaper option:
    Keep both of my current anchors. Buy a 10 kg Delta anchor, 20 meters of chain, and around 30 meters of rope. This option is way cheaper and I wouldn't need a windlass either.

Those idéas might be really bad, I don't know. Do you guys have any input? Any better idéas?
I have no experience of cruising, sailing by the swedish coast is something completley different than what I'm planning so any help is more than welcome!

Thanks,
Jonas
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Old 05-12-2018, 01:58   #2
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Re: Budget anchoring (?)

My boat is 26 feet with low windvane and I use 12 kilos delta style anchor and 8 mm chain , 50 meters on the main anchor , 10 metters on the seccond front anchor that's is a Danforth 8 kilos and 50 metters on the stern anchor another Danforth 8 kilos .
I do feel that 10 kg delta is small for your boat and you should go with bigger size .
Now about the windlass , I have been anchoring in the med by hand using no windlass with no problems , but if you plan to anchor on tidal water , strong currents , or deep water (over 10 metters ) anchoring will tire out your back and cause issues so it's better to have at least one manual windlass as I have .
In any case you don't need a mantus a d for the price of it you can get a windlass.
At my current anchorage I use all the chain and a snubber , and the anchor still drifts few metters every time the tide change ,but I am currently in the river and the current is over 4 knots .
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Old 05-12-2018, 02:01   #3
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Re: Budget anchoring (?)

When the wind is howling around your rigging whilst you are laying to an anchor, you will want the best anchor you can afford and can handle.
This year we spent two nights at anchor in the Isle of Scilly whilst it blew 50 knots. First night I didn't sleep much but the next night I had enough trust in our Mantus to have a good nights sleep.
Anchor choice depends on how well you want to sleep
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Old 05-12-2018, 02:13   #4
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Re: Budget anchoring (?)

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When the wind is howling around your rigging whilst you are laying to an anchor, you will want the best anchor you can afford and can handle.
This year we spent two nights at anchor in the Isle of Scilly whilst it blew 50 knots. First night I didn't sleep much but the next night I had enough trust in our Mantus to have a good nights sleep.
Anchor choice depends on how well you want to sleep
Mantus won't make a big difference , delta is as good.
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Old 05-12-2018, 02:42   #5
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Re: Budget anchoring (?)

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Mantus won't make a big difference , delta is as good.
I've not had Mantus, but I had a Lewmar Delta for two years before replacing it with a Rocna, and kicked myself for not doing it sooner. Delta performance was horrible compared to Rocna. Spent more time dragging than holding. I'd expect Mantus to be similar to Rocna. I
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Old 05-12-2018, 03:36   #6
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Re: Budget anchoring (?)

People have been anchoring with no rockna or mantus for years with success , before you tell that delta was bad , have you consider the :
Size difference ? Budget difference ? Chain , bottom conditions?
Maybe your rockna holds better but is the same as delta or oversized ?
Still with the price of rockna you can buy bigger delta plus a windlass (manual one ) so for the budget sailor makes sense.

I really can't believe that people.pay over 500 dollars for a piece of iron you dump in the sea , the cost doesn't justify the performance .

The shame happens with other sailing gear as well , so it's not a surprise people fell victims of marketing .
For me a 16 kg delta and 8 or 10.mm of chain (50 metters at least ) will do just fine for his boat if he be in bad condition s he can use 2.anchors (one of the other ones ) in line , and he still will have a windlass to lift the chain .
But I really doubt he will ever need to do that .
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Old 05-12-2018, 04:11   #7
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Re: Budget anchoring (?)

Welcome to the forum Jonas.

The Mantus is an excellent anchor. If you plan on spending significant time anchoring you will not regret the extra cost. If you can possibly afford the difference this is the best choice.

For a budget buy the Kobra 2 is convex plow anchor in a similar design to the Delta, but has slightly better performance, and is cheaper. However, it is a long way from the performance of the Mantus in my view.

A 10kg Delta is to small for your boat and your plans. The Lewmar sizing table is more of a marketing tool, and is not realistic for cruising boat.

It is possible to manage without a windlass on a 31 foot boat. It is hard work and it involves some compromises on equipment and technique, but electric windlasses are expensive especially when the ancillary equipment such as large cables, switches etc is taken into account.

Try a shake down cruise without a windlass and see how you manage.
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Old 05-12-2018, 04:22   #8
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Re: Budget anchoring (?)

Jonas,

If you take some time to plow through the endless anchoring threads on this forum, you'll find the overwhelming consensus is this: Rocna/Manson/Spade/Mantus: good; Delta/CQR/Danforth/Sarca/Bruce: not worth the zinc they're galvanized with. Every fan of each anchor has his own testimonials ("my delta has held for XXXX nights in XXXX wind!), but I think the evidence is overpoweringly in favor of a next-gen anchor. I myself would rather have an undersized next-gen than a monster Bruce.

As for a windlass, I have a manual one on my 31' boat. It's a Lofrans Royal. I see no reason to go to the expense and bother of an electric for that size.
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Old 05-12-2018, 04:34   #9
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Re: Budget anchoring (?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmakhs View Post
People have been anchoring with no rockna or mantus for years with success , before you tell that delta was bad , have you consider the :
Size difference ? Budget difference ? Chain , bottom conditions?
Maybe your rockna holds better but is the same as delta or oversized ?
Still with the price of rockna you can buy bigger delta plus a windlass (manual one ) so for the budget sailor makes sense.

I really can't believe that people.pay over 500 dollars for a piece of iron you dump in the sea , the cost doesn't justify the performance .

The shame happens with other sailing gear as well , so it's not a surprise people fell victims of marketing .
For me a 16 kg delta and 8 or 10.mm of chain (50 metters at least ) will do just fine for his boat if he be in bad condition s he can use 2.anchors (one of the other ones ) in line , and he still will have a windlass to lift the chain .
But I really doubt he will ever need to do that .
It was an equal comparison. I used the Lewmar for two years and was frustrated by how poorly it set and could never trust it for overnight. I changed to Rocna of same weight, on same chain rode, and anchoring in same places as the Lewmar. The Rocna set every time on fist drop, and as far as I can tell never dragged in subsequent nine years until I sold the boat. I'm having a larger cat built and have already purchased the Rocna for it. And yes I am very aware of the cost difference, but I wouldn't go with a Lewmar even if someone gave me a new one. In my experience it's not even worth carry as a secondary. (Purchased a Fortress for that.). Oh, and read the anchor tests and see how many times the Lewmar comes in best. Answer is ZERO.
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Old 05-12-2018, 04:49   #10
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Re: Budget anchoring (?)

I agree with the comments about getting a next generation of anchor for your boat. You don't have to get a windlass. Wife and I went to the keys in a 34 foot boat without a windass. We had 90 feet of chain and a 33 lb Manson. I should have had less chain so that we could always anchor tying off the rope instead of messing with the snubber as we anchored in 10 feet often. The times the current or wind made it difficult to pull up the anchor I used a chain hook and ran a line to the winch in the cockpit. Dale
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Old 05-12-2018, 04:52   #11
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Re: Budget anchoring (?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonassundbom View Post
I've been thinking about two options:
  1. Expensive option:
    Keep the Bruce as a stern anchor, scrap the Danforth and invest in something like a Mantus anchor which I then would up-size + 50 meters of chain and a Windlass to use in any anchoring situation. Would an up-sized Mantus anchor be enough in stormy weather?
  2. Or the cheaper option:
    Keep both of my current anchors. Buy a 10 kg Delta anchor, 20 meters of chain, and around 30 meters of rope. This option is way cheaper and I wouldn't need a windlass either.
It all depends on your comfort level I guess. I wouldn't go cheap as ever "cheap" anchors are the worlds best insurance on a boat. But I don't understand why you need a windlass in A but not B. Doesn't matter how much total chain you have, all that matter is the depth to the bottom.
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Old 05-12-2018, 05:11   #12
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Re: Budget anchoring (?)

I agree with Noelex and Benz reference the manual anchor windlass. We are the same size and if the tide is slack or wind calm I can lift the 10kg Rocna by hand. However, in poor conditions I don't hesitate to use the manual winch which makes light work of the lift. Fitting a secondhand manual windlass would be both very useful and cost effective. However, you need to size the windlass and any new anchor chain so they work together.

We have 40m of 8mm chain and a further 15m of rope for the main 10 Kg Rocna. Then a Fortress FX 16, 10m of chain and 50m of rope as a spare. Unfortunately Fortress new are expensive and rare on the secondhand market. I would love a FX23 as a storm anchor.

I would ditch the Danforth, keep the Bruce as a spare and buy a new Rocna/Mantus/Spade/Kobra with 40m of 8mm chain, though be aware of the weight going on the bow. You will presumably be coastal hopping down to the Canaries, so you could perhaps buy a new anchor on route at a favourable rate and perhaps tax free. For example Spade from the dealer in Jersey, or one of the UK south coast chandlers.
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Old 05-12-2018, 05:31   #13
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Re: Budget anchoring (?)

I use a Mantus on one boat and rocks on the other. Mantus is less expensive option.

If shipping to Europe is an option you might consider not buying until you get to the Carrib, not sure if Mantus is available here. Rocna is.

Some anchorages here in Carribean can be relatively deep, say 30’-35’. The type of bottom varies widely: sand over pan, sand, grass, even mud. Wind is frequently 25knits but can be easily 30-35 withou a storm. Many anchorages are narrow shelf’s that drop off quickely. Next stop Panama. Many places you really, really, really want to be secure in your anchoring before leaving the boat.

Just my humble opinion.
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Old 05-12-2018, 05:36   #14
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Re: Budget anchoring (?)

I have seen used Lofrans Royal pure manual windlasses go pretty cheap lately. Even new, if you take your time and shop around online.

I sure do hate picking up a bunch of chain and a good sized anchor by hand. If the chain is just a short stinger, not so bad, but anything over 30' and over 1/4" gets old quick. One way to get by without a windlass is to use just enough chain to reach almost to your sheet winch and go a size or two heavier than you would with a windlass on deck. Lead the rode aft to the winch, haul in by hand as much as possible and then start grinding. Let the anchor line pile up in the cockpit, then when anchor is secure, flip the whole pile upside down, go forward, and feed it down into the chain locker.
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Old 05-12-2018, 05:53   #15
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Re: Budget anchoring (?)

Get rid of the Danforth and get a Fortress FX-16 with 20' of 1/4" G40 chain.
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