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Old 17-02-2009, 20:44   #16
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Originally Posted by GMac View Post
The 'G40 HT' is NOT a hi tensile chain. The HT stands for 'Hi-test' which basically means they elevated the load used during the Proof Test. By doing this you can claim a higher WLL. WLL is 1/2 of the proof load.

BUT and it a BUT worth noting, by pumping up the Proof Load to pump up the WLL it means the Safety margin has been decreased. In Acco's G40 HT case the Safety Margin is down to 2.5:1 where everyone elses G40 has a lower published WLL but with a 4:1 Safety Margin.

While Acco makes fantastic chain, no question about that at all, thier G40 chain will break at the same time as anyone else G40 whether is tagged 'HT' or not.

This HT is another good strike by the marketting department and a pretty damn clever one when you think aboiut it. John like many others fell into the HT = Hi Tensile trap, it's very common.

FYI - In the US the 'HT' tag is used extensivly but it is still a Grade 40 (Grade M is the new name) so if you are outside of the US buy a Grade 40 and you'll have exactly the same thing.

FYI 2 - There are only a very few real Hi Tensile anchor chains that are galvanised. PWB in Aussie make a Grade 50 (marginal Hi tensile). Acco (US), Maggi (Italy) and Gunnebo (Sweden) all make a Grade 70 (assorted names inc Schedual 7, Aqua7 and more) finished and galvanised. These are seriously strong chains but as they are a complete arse to galvanise without strength lose they do cost.

I sell 100's of 1,000's of metres of anchor chain a year and still struggle to see why you would want to use a real Hi-Tensile chain, it just doesn't stack up when talking performance.

And don't be stupid enough to buy a Grade 70 or 80 chain and get it galvanised unless you have so much money you can afford to sit down afterwards and be happy to call it a 'learning exersize'. Galvanising a G70 would leave you with a Grade 50 at best, most likely a huge pile less. Buy a proper one unless you don't plan on sleeping or hate your boat.
Interesting. Can you tell me what is the best 3/8 chain to buy?
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Old 17-02-2009, 21:33   #17
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The one that fits your winch, is made by a reputable company that can provide real test Certificates and is a Grade 30 or 40.

By 'reputable company' I mean a known chain maker. You'll see chains and many other boat items tagged with a known brand name but they don't make them. As an example you see lots of Lewmar brand ropes and chains but strangly Lewmar doesn't have any rope or chain making facilities. They are only selling you the 'brand' rather than the product, which most often comes out of the East. That's the latest and greatest thing apparently, don't sell a product just a brand. There are many examples, Nike, Tommy Halfinger, Rocna, Lewmar, West Marine, many car companys (a small Ford is actually made by Mazda), Murcury Outboards (small ones made by Tohatsu) and how did I forget 'Brittany Spears Perfume' Not saying their products are bad even if Brittany's just doesn't work for me, but you just don't know who is actually making the product so there is room for uncomfort shall I say.

Being in Seattle I'd say Acco (now Pearson Acco) would be a good choice and at the same time you can have a few warm fuzzies from supporting a local manufacturer. Their 'BBB' is a Grade 30 and the Grade 40 (the HT) is strangely a Grade 40

The Grade 40 thing is huge in the US (nothing wrong with that) but most cruisers from the rest of the world are most likely to be on a Grade 30 (new name is Grade L). A well made chain failing is rear. Generally the chain makers make a stronger product than the anchor maker can get as a holding load, winch or deck makers, so one of those usually fails long before the chain gets stressed.

I'm excluding Asian made chains as they are usually made of soft metals so stretch real easy and are poorly, if even at all, calibrated. Also they do tend to have somewhat suspect and 'interestingly' written certificates. The random lemon factor is still way too high to make most comfortable.

Unless you have a real specific desire to have minimum weight in your locker and yet big strength I'd stay away from grades higher.

Contrary to many people thoughts, higher grade chains do not weight any less than lower grades (OK there maybe a ounce or so per foot but nothing big) but do have some big downsides. These being cost, far larger dislike of shock loads, next to none or none at all warning of imminent failure and they can't be regalvanised by 99.9999% of the worlds galvanisers. The '$$ per foot per life time' ratio is very poor.

A quick twist in the tail. If you're planning an extensive offshore world cruise it may just pay to try and match your gypsy and chain to the world standard sizes. The US runs it's own standard and while that is perfectly fine it does mean most US aizes are uncommon outside of the US. The Grading system is the same just not the phyisical measurements. But on some sizes there are equivilents that can be used. A 3/8" BBB Acco chain can be used on the same gypsy pattern as a 10mm DIN766/A standard for example. A 5/16" G40 Acco can be swapped with a 9mm DIN766/A as another. But not all sizes have options.

Oh and the Aussies have there own sizing as well. Again there are the odd cross-overs but not on all.

Your head suffered info overload and exploded yet
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Old 21-02-2009, 23:52   #18
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GMac,

I have 60' of 5/16" BBB chain + rode on my boat and would like to extend the chain part by another 60': Is it acceptable/reliable to purchase 60' more chain and extend -or- better to purchase a 120' length of chain?

Thanks in advance!

Sailndive
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Old 21-02-2009, 23:54   #19
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GMac,

I have 60' of 5/16" BBB chain + rode on my boat and would like to extend the chain part by another 60': Is it acceptable/reliable to purchase 60' more chain and extend -or- better to purchase a 120' length of chain?

Thanks in advance!

Sailndive
I meant to also ask about splicing the chain.... Are there different ways? Is there a better method?

Fair winds!

Sailndive
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Old 22-02-2009, 23:27   #20
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Easy either way I'd say Sailndive.
Obviously a complete new length is easy if you have the bucks. But yuou canb quite happily join some on the back of your existing.

So considerations before you fire into anything -
- Bucks as in have I got enough and want to spend it to buy all new.
- State of current chain. It is good for a few years or will I need to regalvanise it soon. If it's close to regalvanising time maybe the time and $$'s to do that and then extend it may be more than a complete new length.
- Sate of anchor winch. Is it sweet for years to come or will I need to replace it soonish. If you think you maybe doing a replacement will it be the same size and if the same size can I get a gypsy on it that will fit my current chain, extended or not.

Assuming adding a length is the better option, I'd have no problem with it as long as -
you add exactly the same physical sized chain.
you use a GOOD chain joiner.
you fit the joiner correctly. NB: It's hard not to if you have only 1/2 a clue but we have seen the very odd 'Ya Whot, How did you manage to to that?'

Chain joiners - We would only use and recommend the 2-piece 'C' type ourselves. (They are also known as 'Replacement links', Connecting Links' and a few other names. I'm pretty sure Crosby call them Missing links) And only ones that are made by reputable companies. We use ones made by Maggi (Italian) or Crosby (Canada & US). Both are very identifiable and can be trusted to meet the loads stated. There are many that are spooky, which we wouldn't even consider letting in the building let alone on a boat. Never seen a good stainless one so expect a galvanised only.

Either of those 2 fitted well is fine. Yes some will say they are dangerous and so on but the facts just don't support those arguments. Often you'll find the ones giving grief are no-name shockers out of the east. There are 1000's of these in use as you read this and are working just as they should.

One thing though - you may very well find that getting a link to the exact same size as you chain maybe tricky if not impossible. As long as you get a 5/16" joiner for you 5/16" chain it'll be fine. Winches can handle one link that may have a slight size difference (usually a tiny bit in the length measurement) without a problem, so don't stress if the joiner is 1/16" - 1/8" longer or shorter.

And of course there is the cut and weld option. Get someone WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE DOING to cut a link and weld it up once joined to the other length. We get the 2 end links and cut V's into each to make a sort of Sister Clip arrangement and then our skilled with brains welder does his thing.

Never had a problem with that either except for one thing. Galvanising, the welder will take it off before he welds the links up again. We use a cold galv spray made by some US outfit called Crown. We have found that bloody good and almost as good as normal galv. Cover the not being touched links with tin foil (the alloy stuff the wife uses in the kitchen) so any splatter doesn't hurt them. Weld and then clean very well and spray galv. All good to go.

If you wanted you could take the chain to someone with a Test Bed and get them to Proof Load that section as a bit of piece of mind. We do it in most cases but that has almost become just another reason for me to play with hydraulic rams, I do like them As yet we have meet proof load easily every time.

That make sense?
It's stinking hot here today with humidity way up there so hard to concentrate well. I need beer and need it now. Stand back from the fridge... I'm on a mission and don't want to have to hurt you
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Old 23-02-2009, 09:42   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMac View Post
Easy either way I'd say Sailndive.
......
That make sense?
It's stinking hot here today with humidity way up there so hard to concentrate well. I need beer and need it now. Stand back from the fridge... I'm on a mission and don't want to have to hurt you
You're good man, GMac!... Many thanks for the thorough info; I think I'm good to go. (Enjoy that beer - I wouldn't think of getting in between a man and his beer )

Sailndive
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Old 23-02-2009, 17:45   #22
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I have purchased many things off E-Bay for my boat and a lot, no most of the time it's the same stuff they sell or better. Wire is one example of better quality then I could have purchased at West. Paid $35.02 for 25' of 10/3 AWG wire on E-Bay and when I got it I walked over to West Marine to compare, it was better quality wire and I didn't have to pay the $119 plus tax! If you buy on E-Bay read the discriptions carefully and ask questions of the seller if something isn't clear. My West Marine store will match any price online I find for an item they stock, just print the page and send or take it to them. This doesn't apply to anything on E-Bay.
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Old 03-03-2009, 09:13   #23
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Has anyone ever bought chain from this outfit:

Best Marine Imports - Stainless Steel Chains
THe link says stainless, but there is galvanized here as well -and they say the chain is US made.

Chris
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Old 03-03-2009, 09:35   #24
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Look for a local commercial chandler, servicing commercial shipping and the fishing industry. I've found the price to be about 50% of retail. You may have to by 300ft of rode, a spool, and do your own splicing.
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