Bent Manson supreme

[doug86]

Originally Posted by lancelot9898

Tell us about your engineering qualifications so we can all be impressed!

School of Hard Knocks: '86-'99
Graduate Degree in Bloody Knuckles: 2005
Doctorate, Univeristy of Trial & Error (specialty in Errors) 2006
Post Doc work: Underwater Repairs in Foreign Countries

[READY2GO]

I just read this entire thread, and if I understand correctly: Rocna was bought out about two to 2 to 2 1/2 years ago, and promply moved their manufacturing to china (under strict supervision). Also at the time of changing manufacturing locations the construction was changed to forged.

I have been trying to decide which anchor to upgrade to, Rocna or Manson. This info makes that decision pretty simple. It will definitely be a Manson.

[ADMPRTR]

Originally Posted by s/v 'Faith'

That is about all anyone should need to know...

I recently had correspondence with Rocna and ultimately bought a Rocna 20. I don't know if I got my moneys worth (it was 150% the price of the same size of Lewmar delta) but so far I am pleased with what I see. I can't compare it with the Manson Supreme (not available here) but to my untrained eye (and prejudices against Chinesse manufacturing aside) it appears to be well constructed with even welds, sharp blade and smooth surfaces. However the test will be when it get gets wet.

Anyway, I asked Rocna about the contruction in China and the following is their response which seemed reasonable to me:

"Rocna anchors are made in China, but that is not shown on the anchors.

We have had a number of enquiries with regards to this issue, so to put the record straight we no longer manufacture Rocna Anchors in NZ or Canada. The reasons for this are as follows:

Two years ago Rocna had manufacturing facilities in both Canada and New Zealand and at the time were a small, boutique manufacturer/distributor.

As word of our anchor starting to spread so too did demand and, in anticipation of strong growth, we began to make plans to increase the capacity of our manufacturing capabilities.
We also used this as an opportunity to ‘raise the bar’ and further improve the quality and consistency of our anchor as our existing manufacturers were struggling to spend the time, or pay as much attention to detail, as our specifications demanded without increasing the costs beyond acceptable levels.

During this process we considered manufacturing options in China, India, Australia, Poland and naturally continued negotiations with our two incumbent manufacturers in New Zealand and Canada.

After extensive research and evaluations, including numerous overseas trips and manufacturing samples, we eventually elected to move production to new, purpose built facilities in Shanghai, China.

Staffed by highly skilled, well-qualified engineers and workers, the Chinese facility is already ISO 9001 accredited. All the welders are certified and the factory has invested in the latest X-ray technology for random weld inspections as part of a rigorous quality control regime and we employ our own specialised NZ production and QC staff in China.

In addition, we have invested considerable time and effort training their Chinese production team to meet our high standards. Experts in quality control and production management worked closely with Chinese factory personnel and we also engaged the services of Italian based RINA [Registro Italiano Navale], an internationally recognised leader in certification and assessment of conformity, and have been working with RINA now for over 18 months.

RINA is now in the final stages of certifying the Chinese facilities. Only 5% of Chinese companies meet RINA’s standards and Rocna will be the first and only anchor manufacturer in the world to be certified to such a high level.
Rocna anchors are RINA certified to Super High holding Power.

With the move, we were able to use what we had learned from our existing manufacturing experiences to upgrade the specification and improve the manufacturing process as a whole.

Although the anchors use exactly the same high quality steel as before, the specifications and consistency out of China are way higher than they were – it’s now a significantly superior product."

[Ram]

Ronca is Long on Wind and was recently challenged by Manson Supreme to a show down side by side test and they have so far not answered the call, what does this tell you ??
I’m not a fan of the Ronca cast base being welded to the shank nor I would not want to bet the whole boat and my life on the Chinese, they have a reputation for a lot of crap coming out of there- not to mention the costs are quite a bit higher than the Mason or Fortress- I bought the Manson 2 of them in the last 5 years , and I also have a Fortress and a Spade

[craigsmith]

Originally Posted by Ram

Ronca is Long on Wind and was recently challenged by Manson Supreme to a show down side by side test and they have so far not answered the call, what does this tell you ??

Manson's "challenge" involved Manson conducting the "test" themselves and was embedded in a slanderous post on another forum consisting primarily of insults and fabrications concerning the Rocna. You cannot be serious?

Originally Posted by Ram

I’m not a fan of the Ronca cast base being welded to the shank

Why not?

Originally Posted by Ram

nor I would not want to bet the whole boat and my life on the Chinese,

You don't have to, it is Rocna not the Chinese you need to be concerned about.

Originally Posted by Ram

not to mention the costs are quite a bit higher than the Mason

You get what you pay for.

[Hydra]

I doubt that Rocna having RINA certify their Chinese manufacturing facilities improves my confidence: I remember that RINA was the classification society in charge of Erika, a tanker that broke in 2 and sank at the end of 1999, resulting in a major oil spill on the French coast.

The trials proved that control of ship structure repair and yard work by RINA was defective. More than 10 years later, I'm still angry at RINA.

This doesn't mean that I wouldn't trust a Chinese-made Rocna anchor. I don't need one, I already have a NZ-made one.

Alain

[sailorboy1]

You get what you pay for.[/QUOTE]


Maybe, but even the data on your web site support that the Manson Supreme is a good anchor. And no matter what you try to say it's hard to believe that the small construction differences between the Ronca and the MS still result in a more expensive Chinese product (I don't question the quality)

Not that long go I was of mind to get a Ronca even though for the price it was smaller than Manson Supreme. But all the trash talk made me question the whole thing because if you really made the best product there isn't any need to trash talk. Basically Craig talked me out of paying the premium.

[Ram]

Originally Posted by craigsmith

Manson's "challenge" involved Manson conducting the "test" themselves and was embedded in a slanderous post on another forum consisting primarily of insults and fabrications concerning the Rocna. You cannot be serious?


Why not?


You don't have to, it is Rocna not the Chinese you need to be concerned about.


You get what you pay for.

the Challenge was for Ronca to be there to be fair -why not take them up on it if your confident about your product?—Seems this could be done easily-

Everyone knows you do not get what you pay for in many cases, how many times have you bought something and realized it was not worth half of what you paid for it??? Price does not always make something better or worse-

I considered buying your anchor and the fact that its built in China and the cost difference along with the fact that Mason is Lloyds approved and cheaper made my choice easy-

[craigsmith]

Originally Posted by Don Lucas

Maybe, but even the data on your web site support that the Manson Supreme is a good anchor. And no matter what you try to say it's hard to believe that the small construction differences between the Ronca and the MS still result in a more expensive Chinese product (I don't question the quality)

Not that long go I was of mind to get a Ronca even though for the price it was smaller than Manson Supreme. But all the trash talk made me question the whole thing because if you really made the best product there isn't any need to trash talk. Basically Craig talked me out of paying the premium.

Don, in a thread where Manson are trying to divert attention away from the opening topic by making the sort of misrepresentations exemplified in post #57, without any prior input from myself at all, I hope you can maintain enough objectivity to see the irony of your comment.

• The bent Rocna (RINA testing) "during use": actually it was in 100% condition at the breaking strength of the 10 mm G40 / high test chain you'd use with it, and finally bent at a load over 20% higher. Compare to the "during use" example of the OP.
• "when items arent certified": actually all Rocna anchors are produced under the regime of RINA certification/classification, exactly equivalent to Lloyd's and others.
• "complete castiron base (fluke)": outright falsification, the Rocna fluke is cast steel not iron, according to all relevant RINA specs/standards not to mention the designer's which tend to exceed the former. The cast Rocna fluke is stronger and superior to the old mild steel fabricated version.
• impugning the shank-to-fluke weld: no evidence at all, refer again RINA regime + complete lack of any examples of failures.
• "casting it will snap instead of bending": outright falsification, the steel in the cast Rocna fluke is tough and ductile.

I make these points to illustrate how the author of the post in question is either completely lacking in the relevant knowledge ("cast iron"?), or quite willing to simply invent ideas to suit their agenda.

[s/v 'Faith']

It is interesting to hear you still trying to cite the bent Manson in the OP Craig....

Surely you agree that while the Manson in the OP would continue to hold a boat... this Rocna certainly would not?

Originally Posted by s/v 'Faith'

Wow, what a great thread... so, the Manson with the bent tip would likely still hold your boat...

... how about a Rocna?



Looks like that 'Made in China' thing is not working out too well...

[craigsmith]

All plate steel bends when subjected to adequate force. Hang an anchor up sideways in rock or whatever and subject it to high loads outside its design criteria, and it is not reasonable to expect it to endure.

A fluke failing during an inline pull in a real world situation is a different matter.

[capngeo]

Does anyone know if Ronca or Manson... or any other manufacturer for that matter... will repair/replace ANY damage as does Fortress?

[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by Maine Sail

No Craig it involved YOU being there ON VIDEO to back up your slanderous and rather offensive claims made over the last 5-7 years. You NEED to take them up on this challenge or all your rantings are just that rantings with no basis for support.

In case you missed it...

The Manson Challenge To Rocna

"If you would please bring down your anchor, we can test it on our calibrated and certified test jig. We have tested it against ours. We have videoed those tests. However in the interests of posting something that you will not say is made up, I welcome you to come here and we will video your face as we do the tests so the readers can see what eating your words after years of misinformation looks like.

Any time you would like to test your anchor we are here. Any time."

Video recorder your representatives their representatives and an independent third part like a Lloyd's or a RINA representative seems more than reasonable..



Disclaimer: I am a current Rocna owner, who, like many others, would like to see this side by side, head to head, test done.

[capngeo]

I suppose with all the pleasantries being passed around, this thread has run it's course and is now closed.