Attaching nylon rode to deck... How?

[Jarel Design]

Just completed our new home made (SUPER HEAVY DUTY!!!! I'm a prototype designer/fabricator by trade), bow roller and will be installing a manual anchorman windlass.

We have 40' of 5/16" HT G4 chain with 150' of 1/2" 8-plait nylon rode. 25# Mantus with Mantus swivel. Our boat is a Chrysler 26' swing keel.

I've read SO MANY threads about NOT fixing the bitter end of the rode to the windlass as our end point. Most places we'll be anchoring will have all the chain out with a quite a bit of nylon rode, so snubbing (shock reducing), shouldn't be an issue.

My main concern is where/how to attach nylon line to deck. Will the length of nylon rode out in the water reduce loads to a windlass?

I'm "thinking" of making a bridle to go to both bow cleats and using a prussic/clinch knot to disperse the load from our anchor line to two cleats. Overall length between rode to cleat would be about 15' (Using dock lines from each and doubling up with both dock lines.)

Since I'm mounting new cleats, I'm wondering about mounting them canted inward towards the bow roller and dispersing the strain from the rode to the cleats, on deck... (Not sure if I like that because for mooring buoys, I'd like the cleats to mounted parallel to these lines as they lead out forward, over the side (with chafe guards), to the buoy.

Any ideas/suggestions would be most appreciated... (I've been working on this boat (upgrades... way too many to list!), for months and I have way to much information going around in my brain... I could be over thinking this, but rather be safe than sorry.

PS: We'll be spending a month cruising in the San Juan Islands between July and August.

Thanks!

Richard & Tresa

[Jarel Design]

I think I just found a simpler solution!

I have a larger HD cleat and now I'm thinking about installing that cleat just behind (and slightly off to the side, so our anchor rode can remain inline with the roller). Maybe I can just let out our chain and nylon and then fasten the nylon to this third cleat, making sure that when it's attached to the cleat, it doesn't touch the windlass while staying in line with the roller (There's a second roller at the aft section of the aluminum bow roller.)

???

Thanks!

Richard

[Jarel Design]

PS: Boat weight is 5,500# (Probably 6,000" to 6,500# loaded.)

[exMaggieDrum]

The strongest points to attach bow cleats is usually along the deck/hull joint. They need good backing plates, as would one away from the joint but the mid-line one would need to be a bit more substantial. I can appreciate the issue of having the rode line up better with the bow roller. For all chain that isn't as much as a problem because it won't chafe as bad.

[UNCIVILIZED]

A 3rd cleat is rarely a bad idea, usually quite the opposite. Especially as that way you can use your 2 side cleats for your bridle snubber, & the center one for the rode itself.
As to snubbers & the length of rode out, the longer they are, the more energy they can absorb. And a search on snubbers here on CF will turn up all sorts of info on this. That said, yes, a snubber led to the 2 cleats, one on either side of the bow, & attached to the rode via a prussic hitch (or similar; rolling hitch) is a good way to go.

Also, as stated in the other thread on this, ensure that your hull & deck are well tied together, given the weak nature of the factory joint on that design. Not that it’s likely to fail before you’d part your anchor rode, but there’s no point in hastening it’s early demise. Or contributing to leaks in your v-berth, thus ruining the best part about being anchored out. Snuggling with your sweetie in your own private slice of the universe, knowing that the boat’s secure, listening to a gentle rain on the deck 3’ above your head.

And obviously, properly bed, & back up any cleats & hardware that you add to the deck. You know this, but not everyone does. So backing plates are the order of the day, sometimes in addition to reinforcing the laminate. Etcetera.


PS: Give some thought to how you plan to deploy a 2nd anchor from the bow also. In terms of where you'll cleat off the rode, how you'll lead it, etc.

[thinwater]

a. Unless the bow roller has a chafe problem, just cleat the rope. The cleat should be very close to the roller, to minimize motion on the roller due to stretch.

b. 5/16" G4 was is mismatched to the rope. Either 1/4" G4 or 5/16" BBB, and BBB would be the better choice in terms of the splice feeding properly.

c. Ditch the swivel. A total waste at that size. It may also reduce anchor burying because of it is over size (5/16").

d. If it sails too much at anchor a bridle may help. Attach it to the rode with a prusik hitch and play with the chafe gear. Assuming there is always rope out, the bridle can be polyester, which will reduce chafe. Bridles must be nylon for chain.

[Tayana42]

Jarel, what you describe sounds good as long as you have a substantial backing plate. Does the Chrysler 26 have a solid fiberglass deck? If it is cored you probably know what you need to do with fittings.

[UNCIVILIZED]

BTW there's a thread on cleats, with an included table showing the strengths & failure modes of each type. It may give you some insights when you're deciding what to use, & how to mount it. I started the thread maybe 10 days ago, or a bit more.

[Jarel Design]

WOW! Just got back from buying more SS screws... LOTS of replies!

I've attached a few photos of our new bow roller. Hangs off the bow by about 8". 1/4" aluminum with 1" teak backing. deck has been faired with west under the teak so that it's a sound fit (curved deck up there). 6 through bolts with backing plates.

More and more, I like the idea of using a third cleat (Civillized), and running the nylon rode back and by the windlass. This still leaves the two bow cleats free if I want to add a bridle. Since it will be close to the windlass, I'll create a much larger backing plate for both (West them with HD adhesive filler up under the deck for added strength.)

Yes to ALL concerns on deck strength, backing plates etc... This will be my 5th boat refit (others in MDR were bigger...) We went with this boat after moving to Oregon (250 miles from a coast I would not sail!), because it had most of the features of a larger boat, yet was legally trailerable. Our cruising grounds will include Sea of Cortez. ICW, Bahamas and Marina del Rey/Catalina just to get out of here for short trips to sail (Lots of friends in MDR with slips...)

Went with the Mantus swivel for various reasons (don't want to start a debate on this. )

I created a large/tight fitting marine ply backing under the bow roller, extending past the modified anchor locker... Soaked in west then clamped up into the deck using HD adhesive filler. Created wide fillets at the hull and laid in heavy roving. It's not going anywhere!

Took the boat to a high pressure wash place and tested ALL fittings port lights etc for leak, marked then patched if necessary.

With the exception of modifying the anchor locker, bow roller and mounting the windlass, all modifications are just for this trip. We have MANY more planned and will upgrade again when I have time before our next trip. Long story, but I was recently FALSELY diagnosed with a brain tumor! The month spent crying together before we got it straightened out, pushed us into not waiting until Tresa retires. She was able to get a month off and since we're both familiar with sailing the San Juans, we decided to go now: July 5th. Tresa keeps reminding me that my last trip there was on a San Juan 21 with a hand held compass, paper charts, a "lake danforth wanna-be)... no depth finder and only a hand held VHF... Our new boat is equipped way beyond any similar boat might be... Still want to get as much done as possible before we go. Also adding 200watts solar, 2 water tanks with deck fills, 2nd VHF antennae on stern rail with Y-splitter, totally re-wired AC 120 volt system and added a promariner dual bank charger and much more... Whew!

OK... It's now 90 degrees outside and it's only 11AM! Need to get out there and get some "sun work" done before heading into the shop and getting some "shade work" done.

Thank you all! Feeling much better about how to handle this.

Best,
Richard

[Jarel Design]

Well, it's approaching a high of 100 today and under the grey tarp, it's even hotter...!

But... I completed the work on the forward deck!

The "before" photo shows what I started out with. Not much room for a strong bow roller...

Everything has two layers of ply underneath with LOTS of WEST fairing and thick fiberglass attaching the ply to the hull.

The off-set half hole is for the windlass to dump the chain into thee locker. The windlass will be centered and line up with the aft roller on the bow roller assembly.

Still need to install the windlass, chain tensioner, center and bow cleats.

Then I get to work on plumbing! LOL! (Among a long list of other tasks.) LOL!

Thanks for your help!

Richard

[doublewide]

On our catamaran, at anchor, we cleat the bridle (on a monohull you may use a snubber) on beefy bow cleats on deck or to bow pad eyes just above the water line on each hull.

When backing down on the anchor, before attaching the bridle, we transfer the strain from the windlass (which is not designed to withstand that sort of strain) via a Prusik loop to a big strong cleat with huge backing plate installed right near the windlass, so the strain is led fair to the cleat. The Prusik loop goes on and off the chain or rode in a matter of a few seconds. Put the Prusik on the rode, then on the cleat, then take the strain off the windlass by letting out enough rode that the Prusik comes taut.

[Jarel Design]

thanks doublewide,

I found a LARGE cleat that's going to be mounted behind the windlass (off to the side so there's no chaffe with the windlass, but still enough inline so the the rode rests in the rear roller of our bow roller. WIDE plywood backing for everything up front there. We have 50' of chain, so I expect Nylon rode for a distance up to the bow roller, so I'm not planning to use a snubber.

When we get back from our trip, I'll remove these components and router the deck with larger holes and fill with west epoxy & HD adhesive filler mix (Cored deck). Next rip will be late this winter, trailering our boat to the Sea of Cortez... There will still be more work before we take her to Florida to sail the keys and the Bahamas. (Nice thing having our boat on a trailer! We can "drive" to where we want to cruise.)

Running out of time to get ready for this trip (Leaving July 5th), with LOTS more to do.

Richard