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Old 02-04-2016, 16:24   #46
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Re: Are my anchors obsolete? CQR 60 Lbs, Delta 55 Lbs, Bruce 20 kg

What's old and new got to do with anchors? Of course people used these older designs for years as there were no other choices. Some older boats are built better than some newer ones so maybe in some situations older might be better but not with anchors. Several of these new anchors are just designed far better than the older ones and do a far better overall job of setting quickly and holding your boat but sure you can drive a Chevy Corvair if you like and it will get you to where you want to go but it's not in the same league as a new Toyota and all the stories you have won't change the fact that a CQR is not in the same league as a Spade or Rocna.
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Old 02-04-2016, 16:44   #47
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Re: Are my anchors obsolete? CQR 60 Lbs, Delta 55 Lbs, Bruce 20 kg

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...and all the stories you have won't change the fact that a CQR is not in the same league as a Spade or Rocna.
In fact, not even in the same league as a Delta and I would say that the Spade, the Rocna, the Mason and eventually some others are on a different league than a Delta.

But they all work doing their job, some better than others and this is not bullying, it is to provide information that can be checked on the numerous tests those anchors were subjected and information was what the OP asked for.

If the OP will consider his anchor obsolete it is up to him. It is a personal choice that should be based on information. Clearly some consider a CQR obsolete, others not, it depends on the performance one wants from his anchor, compared with others.
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Old 02-04-2016, 18:59   #48
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Re: Are my anchors obsolete? CQR 60 Lbs, Delta 55 Lbs, Bruce 20 kg

YES! Your anchors are obsolete. Since all of the ocean bottoms were changed last year and the 'law of gravity' amended at the same time and the co-efficient of friction of wind on boats was tripled this year, all old anchors are obsolete. Anchors that have served cruisers for decades will NOT work now. Rush to your local chandlery and buy the very latest anchor and you will be safe until the next big change next year.
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Old 02-04-2016, 19:16   #49
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Re: Are my anchors obsolete? CQR 60 Lbs, Delta 55 Lbs, Bruce 20 kg

Can't find the "Use By" date on mine
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Old 02-04-2016, 19:28   #50
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Re: Are my anchors obsolete? CQR 60 Lbs, Delta 55 Lbs, Bruce 20 kg

Quite frankly, anchoring around Guernsey and Sark with the fast currents and 30ft tides, we never had any issues with our 75 pound CQR. I'd leave the boat unattended for twelve hours without a worry following a good set. It was actually Dockhead who experienced difficulty setting his Spade on the same bottom, same day... Go figure.

We do get a better nights sleep using the Ultra anchor, BUT... any anchor can drag, none of them will set perfectly every day. The only way to know for sure what's going on is to dive in and have a look daily. Which is what I do.
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Old 02-04-2016, 19:30   #51
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Re: Are my anchors obsolete? CQR 60 Lbs, Delta 55 Lbs, Bruce 20 kg

Thank you for all generous and kind replies folks!
Well I didn't expect so many replies but thats great to get folks involved! Sorry I couldn't reply earlier as I ran out of internet quota.
Someone asked if I use chain.Yes, I have about 150 feet (50m) 10mm chain, plus 300feet rope. Since I anchor at depths of 10 to 30 feet ( 3 to 10m) and use 5 or 6 to 1 scope I almost never use the rope.
So, some people are very happy with their (heavier) CQRs, while more than one suggested to retire it. A bit of divided opinions there for sure. I have not used this 60 Lb one. I have used the 55Lb/25kg Delta and it's been ok. The Delta requires a "wedged" type roller (not sure if correct term) whereas the CQR wants a flatter one and my Goiot 312 windlass is only one sided so basically normally I can only keep using one anchor which is on the starboard side unless I swap them and the rollers in the marina. At sea I can forget about any such tasks singlehanded and with my slipped disk. The Bruce appears so puny I'm not sure if I'll ever use it.
The 55Lb/25kg Delta has worked ok.
Having looked at the various tests an reviews they all seemed to be about smaller anchors, about 30 to 40 Lb range, and the CQR in particular hasn't been praised in that weight range it seems.

About 2 years ago I witnessed something that got me scared. There was a 40 foot something catamaran anchored outside the marina by what seemed like only using a stern anchor. Crew had left the boat and a thunderstorm came over, like they seasonally come almost every day. The boat dragged for nearly a mile until it settled behind an island, missing a concrete jetty by maybe 50 to 100 meters. At the end of the day they were very lucky. Not very good seamanship though. (I don't know what anchor they used) So, when I started this thread I also had the above incident in mind. Yes, you don't leave a boat anchored by stern anchor only.

So, few more questions about my CQR60Lb and Delta55Lb:
-in a situation where you are anchored at about 15 to 25 feet depth, softish mud bottom, and a thunderstorm comes over gusting 60 knots causing a wind shift of 180 degrees, which of these two would you expect to reset quicker and more reliably? Would they even be reliable? Say 5 to 1 chain scope. Would the 60Lbs CQR be in a totally different league than the 35 lbs you see in the tests? In normal day sailing conditions I would have no worries whatsoever about my CQR60Lb or the Delta 55Lb.
The worry arises in the scenario above. I'm mostly singlehanded. I do leave the boat from time to time to go shopping and eating ashore.

Also am I correct that both the CQR and Delta are at their best type bottoms when at mud or sand? (fortunately weeds I don't have to worry about)

BTW, I noticed a Rocna sold in Thailand was about double price compared to USA Defender price.
I also found "Rocna"s at Alibaba and asked one supplier but no reply.

Anybody remembers the Chinese factory name where they make Rocnas now? I would like to try contact them for price instead of the other suppliers, I reckon less chance of a copy product.
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Old 02-04-2016, 19:42   #52
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Re: Are my anchors obsolete? CQR 60 Lbs, Delta 55 Lbs, Bruce 20 kg

If you frequently anchor in mud, you might want to reconsider your choice to purchase a roll bar type anchor. The roll bar tends to clog with mud, then the anchor will drag when it can't dig deeper. The roll bar prevents a deep set. Just watch the anchor video thread and we experienced the same thing ourselves a couple of times.
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Old 02-04-2016, 19:57   #53
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Re: Are my anchors obsolete? CQR 60 Lbs, Delta 55 Lbs, Bruce 20 kg

Make up your own mind.

Here's how:

Why NEW GEN Anchors are Better:

Anchors & TEST Results of New Generation Anchors EXCELLENT & Important
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Old 02-04-2016, 20:01   #54
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Re: Are my anchors obsolete? CQR 60 Lbs, Delta 55 Lbs, Bruce 20 kg

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
If you frequently anchor in mud, you might want to reconsider your choice to purchase a roll bar type anchor. The roll bar tends to clog with mud, then the anchor will drag when it can't dig deeper. The roll bar prevents a deep set. Just watch the anchor video thread and we experienced the same thing ourselves a couple of times.
Hi Kenomac, by rollbar you are referring to the likes of Rocna, Manson Supreme, and Wasi/Bugel? Go for something like Spade instead? WITHOUT the rollbar?

If I will buy a new anchor the most important character for me a good anchor would have is a quick and reliable re-setting after a 180 degrees wind shift caused by thunderstorm, in mud and sand bottoms, resulting in very strong holding.
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Old 02-04-2016, 21:20   #55
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Re: Are my anchors obsolete? CQR 60 Lbs, Delta 55 Lbs, Bruce 20 kg

Perhaps you have seen these but these two threads can be very informative!
Videos of Anchors Setting
Photos of Anchors Setting
just a little late night reading...
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Old 02-04-2016, 22:06   #56
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Re: Are my anchors obsolete? CQR 60 Lbs, Delta 55 Lbs, Bruce 20 kg

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Perhaps you have seen these but these two threads can be very informative!
Videos of Anchors Setting
Photos of Anchors Setting
just a little late night reading...
Thanks Don, I browsed through the writings earlier but need to get to a cafe with a wifi to view the videos
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Old 02-04-2016, 22:53   #57
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Re: Are my anchors obsolete? CQR 60 Lbs, Delta 55 Lbs, Bruce 20 kg

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Thanks Don, I browsed through the writings earlier but need to get to a cafe with a wifi to view the videos
Do it, well worth the time. Interesting that Steve (Panope) narrowed the selection down to the spade and the excell, selecting the spade as it was more aesthetically appropriate to his boat but equal, in his opinion to the excell.
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Old 03-04-2016, 03:18   #58
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Re: Are my anchors obsolete? CQR 60 Lbs, Delta 55 Lbs, Bruce 20 kg

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikFinn View Post
...

So, few more questions about my CQR60Lb and Delta55Lb:
-in a situation where you are anchored at about 15 to 25 feet depth, softish mud bottom, and a thunderstorm comes over gusting 60 knots causing a wind shift of 180 degrees, which of these two would you expect to reset quicker and more reliably? Would they even be reliable? Say 5 to 1 chain scope. Would the 60Lbs CQR be in a totally different league than the 35 lbs you see in the tests? In normal day sailing conditions I would have no worries whatsoever about my CQR60Lb or the Delta 55Lb.
....
Some of those anchor tests have veering tests. Most modern anchors will not reset since they will not dig out but rotate without digging out. Very good anchors with a different design like the Fortress dig out and reset on those conditions.

Normally the anchors that are better on soft mud are not the same that are very good on sand or hard mud. Really Soft mud is one of the worse grounds for anchoring. Here you have a test that specifies the type of performance on each type of bottom. I did not post it previously because they did not say how they have got the results but I guess that they just pick up all the available information and made a sort of resume.

http://www.spade-anchor.com/IMG/pdf/...LING_TODAY.pdf

It makes sense to have something like a Rocna, a Spade a Mason or a Mantus as main anchor and a Fortress as second anchor not only because the fortress is light but because it has a great holding power and a better one than any of the others in soft mud, or thin mud as you prefer to call it.

If you are satisfied with the Delta keep it but if you have a delta and a Bruce carrying along an heavy CQR makes only sense if you need ballast on the bottom of the boat or if you want to start and anchor collection.
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Old 03-04-2016, 04:36   #59
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Re: Are my anchors obsolete? CQR 60 Lbs, Delta 55 Lbs, Bruce 20 kg

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Some of those anchor tests have veering tests. Most modern anchors will not reset since they will not dig out but rotate without digging out. Very good anchors with a different design like the Fortress dig out and reset on those conditions.

Normally the anchors that are better on soft mud are not the same that are very good on sand or hard mud. Really Soft mud is one of the worse grounds for anchoring. Here you have a test that specifies the type of performance on each type of bottom. I did not post it previously because they did not say how they have got the results but I guess that they just pick up all the available information and made a sort of resume.

http://www.spade-anchor.com/IMG/pdf/...LING_TODAY.pdf

It makes sense to have something like a Rocna, a Spade a Mason or a Mantus as main anchor and a Fortress as second anchor not only because the fortress is light but because it has a great holding power and a better one than any of the others in soft mud, or thin mud as you prefer to call it.

If you are satisfied with the Delta keep it but if you have a delta and a Bruce carrying along an heavy CQR makes only sense if you need ballast on the bottom of the boat or if you want to start and anchor collection.
In very soft mud, there's nothing like a Fortress with the mud palms. I'm not sure why, and it doesn't seem logical to me, but the Fortress despite its light construction will dive in and hold even in very soft mud.

Other anchors may not -- I've had trouble with Spade and 55kg Rocna in such bottoms. It took me a while to figure out that you have to let the anchor settle for a good while before you start trying to set it, then only very very gently.

Another factor is that I have a different definition of "set", from some cruisers. If the anchor will not withstand two or three minutes of redline in reverse, it's not "set" as far as I'm concerned, and I do it over. In very soft mud this sometimes cannot be achieved except with the Fortress, which I am using more and more as the years go by.


Concerning those who say "if it holds your boat, then by definition, it's adequate" -- I don't agree. How difficult was it to get it to set? Would it hold in really strong weather? Does it hold in a variety of bottoms?

In my --quite extensive -- experience with all these anchor types, the CQR is unacceptable. It is very hard to set and frequently drags. Yes, you get used to it -- sleeping with one eye open, always ready to get up and reanchor, etc., etc., etc. You might call that "it holds me boat", but not if you've ever tried anything else. Guess what -- dragging anchor does NOT have to be a normal part of cruising. A revelation when you get rid of your CQR.

As Polux said, there is a dramatic improvement going from CQR to Delta, and a similar improvement going from Delta to any new generation anchor. The difference is how well does it set, how far does it have to drag along the seabed before it digs in, the variety of seabed types it works in, and how drag-proof it is once set.

The Delta is a good anchor and I would be satisfied with it if I had never tried Spade or Rocna. I used a Delta for some years and never once dragged.

But it can be hard to set and is pretty finicky about bottom type. Newer anchors set much more aggressively. This is important because if the anchor doesn't set immediately, it tends to pick up junk on the bottom and then won't set at all.

I have also had good luck with genuine Bruce anchors, but only very large ones. The smaller ones, and especially the fake ones, don't work well, less well than the Delta.

My 55kg Rocna worked very well, but my Spade works better -- sets more reliably. Also, the Rocna was inherently unbalanced, which required me to use a swivel and which made it difficult to recover. The Spade is far easier to recover because the ballast provides natural balance. I suspect this helps setting behavior as well. Spade has a big drawback, however, in that despite its very high cost, it is poorly galvanized and can't be regalvanized, so becomes rusty and shabby looking if you are not using it at least once a week. My Chinese Rocna was much better galvanized, even if it was made from inferior steel.
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Old 03-04-2016, 11:26   #60
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Re: Are my anchors obsolete? CQR 60 Lbs, Delta 55 Lbs, Bruce 20 kg

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Hi Kenomac, by rollbar you are referring to the likes of Rocna, Manson Supreme, and Wasi/Bugel? Go for something like Spade instead? WITHOUT the rollbar?

If I will buy a new anchor the most important character for me a good anchor would have is a quick and reliable re-setting after a 180 degrees wind shift caused by thunderstorm, in mud and sand bottoms, resulting in very strong holding.
Yes, Spade, Ultra etc. new generation anchors without the roll bars (mud scoops).
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