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Old 02-10-2016, 00:48   #1
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Any experience using samller HT (G7) chain on heavy anchor?

We recently switched from a 42kg Wasi anchor on 80 meters of 12 mm chain to the recommended 57kg Mantus on 100 meters of 10mm G7 high tensile chain. We have a Lofrans Titan windlass. We switched to the smaller 10mm g7 because of weight and locker space.

To problem we are having is the chain periodically jumping off the gypsy when lowering. It only happens when there is an uneven, jerk/pull when lowering - like initially if the anchor drops off the roller to fast, or the worst case is if the boat pulls back to fast as the anchor is setting - such as happened to us last week when we got hit with a 35+ knot gust just as we had lowered the anchor.

We have spent the whole summer working with the Lofrans dealer that sold us the chain to make sure that everything related that could possibly cause this was corrected - no bouncing in the chain between the windlass and bow roller, clear feed to and from the gypsy, and of course that we have the correct gypsy. It never jumps when lifting, only when lowering, and only when sudden, jerky force is applied.

Any thoughts or insights???
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Old 02-10-2016, 15:03   #2
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Re: Any experience using samller HT (G7) chain on heavy anchor?

When you switched to the smaller chain did you change the gypsy on the windlass to match?


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Old 04-10-2016, 22:38   #3
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Re: Any experience using samller HT (G7) chain on heavy anchor?

Sounds like a classic chain/gypsy mismatch.

Surely the dealer would know that wouldn't they? From our experience, Nope, it is very possible the dealer has no idea at all.

What are the markings on the gypsy, your chain size and the internal length of the links?

A 57kg anchor on a 50fter???? That's transcending a anchoring system and moved into a mooring system. That is a very very large anchor.

What do I do all day? Sort out these exact problems.
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Old 05-10-2016, 02:18   #4
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Re: Any experience using samller HT (G7) chain on heavy anchor?

We have the same issue periodically with Maggi 5/16" G7 chain on a good sized Rocna. I attribute it to the lighter weight of the chain and the fact that these horizontal windlasses only grip chain on 90 degrees of the gypsy. A vertical windlass (which I would have preferred) will grip the chain through 180 degrees. The jumping seems only to happen when something pulls on the chain, such as the boat moving back too quickly. Let it out slow and easy and all is OK.
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Old 05-10-2016, 04:21   #5
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Re: Any experience using samller HT (G7) chain on heavy anchor?

Might be it, cause my VWC 1500 with 5/16" G70 chain and an 88 lb Rocna works perfectly, even with the anchor full of mud.


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Old 06-10-2016, 20:08   #6
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Re: Any experience using samller HT (G7) chain on heavy anchor?

Gezzzz... you blokes use massive sized anchors.

Yes Horizontals do give the grief the boat boats here are seeing, it's quite common.

How far is the distance between the winch and the next contact point for the chain? That's usually the bow roller. If the distance is reasonably large the chain maybe bouncing which will help flick it out of the gypsy. Is there any way a small roller or a guide can be placed just under the deck to hold the chain forward as much as possible?

Sometimes the smallest thing can stop 90% of the jumping.
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Old 06-10-2016, 20:40   #7
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Re: Any experience using samller HT (G7) chain on heavy anchor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CookiesnTequila View Post
We recently switched from a 42kg Wasi anchor on 80 meters of 12 mm chain to the recommended 57kg Mantus on 100 meters of 10mm G7 high tensile chain. We have a Lofrans Titan windlass. We switched to the smaller 10mm g7 because of weight and locker space.

To problem we are having is the chain periodically jumping off the gypsy when lowering. It only happens when there is an uneven, jerk/pull when lowering - like initially if the anchor drops off the roller to fast, or the worst case is if the boat pulls back to fast as the anchor is setting - such as happened to us last week when we got hit with a 35+ knot gust just as we had lowered the anchor.

We have spent the whole summer working with the Lofrans dealer that sold us the chain to make sure that everything related that could possibly cause this was corrected - no bouncing in the chain between the windlass and bow roller, clear feed to and from the gypsy, and of course that we have the correct gypsy. It never jumps when lifting, only when lowering, and only when sudden, jerky force is applied.

Any thoughts or insights???
Interesting. I have almost EXACTLY the same set up and problem with my new chain and windlass. Palarran has a 55 kilo Rocna and 120 meters of 10mm G7 (or G90 if you believe the stamping). I also have a new Lofrans X3 windlass with the correct gypsy. Personally I think the chain is slightly deformed even though it was proof tested by the factory. Occasionally it will jump a turn on the windlass when lowering. The chain was made in Turkey and galvanized there also. I'm not sure what to make of it. The chain looks like it is a D instead of an 0

We did anchor in 30 meters this summer with a constant wind blowing at 35 knots and gust to 45. Didn't move a meter with about 110 meters of chain out. Also, the jumping doesn't happen often so I don't know what the trigger is.
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Old 07-10-2016, 04:33   #8
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Re: Any experience using samller HT (G7) chain on heavy anchor?

...I suppose youall know, that there are 2 types of "10mm" chains out there:
ISO with internal link-length of 30mm & DIN with 28mm...
VERY few gypsies will accept both... (Quick claims theirs & afais this is true) but most other windlass-manufacturewrs have different 10mm gypsies...
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Old 07-10-2016, 07:05   #9
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Re: Any experience using samller HT (G7) chain on heavy anchor?

double u, I didn't think to check that but did now and both the chain and gypsy are DIN. Thanks for bringing it up though.
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Old 07-10-2016, 07:32   #10
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Re: Any experience using samller HT (G7) chain on heavy anchor?

the second very critical point with any windlass installation is the "angle-of-chain-wrap" on the gypsy: with many below-deck installations of horizontal (shaft) windlasses the chain meets the gypsy at an angle from above horizontal resulting in less than 90° of the gypsy's circumference actually in contact with the chain & therefore vertical (shaft) windlasses are very much to be favoured over horizontal ones.
...& of course then there is the depth of the chainlocker & how much it is reduced by the buildup of the chain...
in the case of horiz. windlasses with chains coming from above horizontal we had some improvements with a stout chainroller mounted low enough in front of the windlasses to result in chainangles >90° on the gypsy (of course at the cost of a massive increase of resistance when hauling because of the additional deflection of the chain)
(hopefully my english adequately explains...)
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Old 07-10-2016, 07:54   #11
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Re: Any experience using samller HT (G7) chain on heavy anchor?

Isn't G70 chain a slightly longer link than G40 or 30? Or is that just for the trucking/cargo G70 chain? I could be mistaken, but I can remember seeing something about needing a different gypsy strictly for G70.. Ideals windlass website or at the boat show? Gosh I can't remember...
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Old 07-10-2016, 12:35   #12
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Re: Any experience using samller HT (G7) chain on heavy anchor?

"...chain was made in Turkey..."
we had a peculiar claim one day: 100m of 10mm (don't emember if ISO or DIN) stainless chain viciously jamming in the gypsy at about half-length. guy hauled all 240kg of it into the shop & lo & behold there were a abt. 5ft at roughly the middle with link-length up to 4mm longer & shorter than they should have been
chain proudly manufactured in PRC...
(working for 3 years in Turkey in the 90ies I came across some outstandingly poorly made products "Türk mali"...-might pay to measure every link...)
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Old 28-10-2016, 10:43   #13
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Re: Any experience using samller HT (G7) chain on heavy anchor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayana42 View Post
When you switched to the smaller chain did you change the gypsy on the windlass to match?


S/V B'Shert
Sorry for delay responding - been sailing!!!

Yes, in fact we bought both the chain and gypsy from the same supplier, who is a dealer for Lofrans. They checked it several times and insist it is correct. I believe it is the prescribed gypsy, but I am not convinced it is correct!!
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Old 28-10-2016, 10:48   #14
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Re: Any experience using samller HT (G7) chain on heavy anchor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GMac View Post
Sounds like a classic chain/gypsy mismatch.

Surely the dealer would know that wouldn't they? From our experience, Nope, it is very possible the dealer has no idea at all.

What are the markings on the gypsy, your chain size and the internal length of the links?

A 57kg anchor on a 50fter???? That's transcending a anchoring system and moved into a mooring system. That is a very very large anchor.

What do I do all day? Sort out these exact problems.
It is very big! but the size recommended by Mantus. We are a 50' catamaran -lots of windage, and regularly anchor in 20 meters of water with 40 knot winds. It is a beast no doubt, and yes - I call it my portable mooring!

I an certain it is the correct - or shall I say, "prescribed" gypsy for the chain size we have. We've checked it several times.
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Old 28-10-2016, 10:55   #15
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Re: Any experience using samller HT (G7) chain on heavy anchor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVNeko View Post
We have the same issue periodically with Maggi 5/16" G7 chain on a good sized Rocna. I attribute it to the lighter weight of the chain and the fact that these horizontal windlasses only grip chain on 90 degrees of the gypsy. A vertical windlass (which I would have preferred) will grip the chain through 180 degrees. The jumping seems only to happen when something pulls on the chain, such as the boat moving back too quickly. Let it out slow and easy and all is OK.
That is exactly our experience, and what I am afraid it is! How are you managing with it? How long have you been using it?

Ours is 10mm Maggi Aqua 7 also!

The first time it happened to us we did some rather serious damage to our bow roller system because the force was so violent. Granted, we were not expecting anything, and we got hit with a 40 knot freight-train gust unexpectedly just as our anchor set and we had not pulled back - so the wind pushed us back and we snubbed up pretty hard.

I am beginning to think the smaller chain on a heavier anchor might not be the right combination!
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