Anchors - Bigger is Better ?

[Bayside Bert28]

I'm surprised by how well my Fortress anchor holds my big 65,000 lb Bertram. I think one of the keys is the 150' of 3/8" HD chain I have attached to the anchor. I have never set the anchor successfully and had it slip.

I have considered changing to a Rocna but there seems to be no need. The Fortress works great and it's lightweight.

[JonJo]

Originally Posted by Bayside Bert28

I'm surprised by how well my Fortress anchor holds my big 65,000 lb Bertram. I think one of the keys is the 150' of 3/8" HD chain I have attached to the anchor. I have never set the anchor successfully and had it slip.

I have considered changing to a Rocna but there seems to be no need. The Fortress works great and it's lightweight.

But how big is the Fortress.

You say 'I have never set the anchor successfully and had it slip' - the implication might be that you have set it unsuccessfully - elaborate?

Our experience is as yours - set it and it hold like concrete, it can be, is, defeated like all anchors by very heavy weed - but in sparse weed, where you can sea the seabed between the weed, it can be set successfully

Jonathan

[bfloyd4445]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

Agreed.

Anchoring in the n Atlantic is a bit different from the s pacific (coral heads and deeper) which a bit different to some of southern Australia (really hard sand), which is a bit different to Patagonia (kelp and shore ties), which is a bit different to Antarctic (bergs in the anchorages). . . .etc.

one size no way firs all but you can't fault us for trying to find one that will fit all,,,,that is the human way, and likely the way the wheel was invented which has been universally applied.

Maybe one o0f us will be the inventer of the next wheel?

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by bfloyd4445

Maybe one o0f us will be the inventer of the next wheel?

sure . . . . but hopefully a solution with more resistance than a wheel

The best "theoretical" answer is easy, but you need two solutions on your bow . . . an auto winding helix screw (for penetrating bottoms - sand, mud) and an explosive expansion bolt (for non-penetrating bottoms - rock, solid coral base). Both need a small optional lawnmower attachment to reach the bottom thru kelp

Edit . . . hmmm perhaps you can combine them into one anchor by putting the explosive expansion bolt on the tip of the helix screw

[DoubleWhisky]

Sometime size of the anchor is meaningless, and design of the anchor is meaningless…
Just try to imagine…
Nice evening in Greece. Charming little harbour of Kioni on the Ithaca island.
A handful of boats Med moored to the quay. Light wind coming from the entrance.
Total calm and beauty.
36 ft Bavaria gliding slowly to the harbour, under engine, low revs. All people on boats looking who is coming. Bavaria showing worn out Greek flag back and white cross on red rectangle under spreader – so probably charter boat with Swiss crew. A couple in early thirties on board, man at the helm and woman on foredeck, windlass remote in hand. Two children in lifejackets in cockpit. Lady on the bow looking around. Found two free spots, waving her free hand to the man behind the wheel. Bavaria is slowly turning 90 degrees to port, then stopping, and starting to move backwards, towards the British flagged, rather big Bene, with two free mooring slots on both sides. The man gives some command and the woman on foredeck lowers the bower. Delta, not so decent size. And it is too late and too close to the quay in the Kioni. Harbour is kind of sunken canyon, anchor go to 10 – 12 meters by average, deeper in places. At the bow of moored boat it is some 6 metres or more, so plenty of scope is needed… Windlass on Bavaria is working. Klick, klick, klick…. And afer a few seconds it stops. Anchor is dangling probably some 4 may be 5 meters under the water level. Lady is looking with admiration at helmsman executing his difficult task of driving the boat into the slot in crosswind. Crosswind of about 1 B, but it is gusting to almost 2 B. No wonder that the boat is pushed by this ferocious wind to the starboard. Almost hitting the bow of British Bene. In the front of disaster the lady boldly lets another two or three meters of chain to go out, and deep satisfaction on her face shows that only her action saved the yachts. The man at the helm, staying face back, on opposite side of the pedestal is totally concentrated. A burst of back revs moment after near miss with Brit, and Bavaris is well into the second slot. Burst forward stops her. The bow goes to the starboard, and Bavaria touches the next boat. This one is well moored, so heroic helmsman can use her like a shoehorn to get Bavaria completely into the slot, touching the quay by stern. Anchor chain is not completely vertical, some angle can be seen by bare eyes, so yes, the anchor actually touched the bottom. The brave lady on the bow looks at the chain somewhat suspiciously, but the rode is quite tight, so assured of the good holding she parts with the remote and goes towards the cockpit.
The kind gentleman from British boat is standing on the quay ready to accept the mooring lines, but the helmsman of Bavaria probably do not want to disturb older man and is starting the chat. Meanwhile the lady occupies herself, taking the lifejackets off the children. At this moment the decks of other boats are full of spectators. All silent, observing, waiting. You can almost physically feel the tension and suspense. And hear the Englishman, asking politely: “Can You be so kind and throw Your mooring lines to me?”. Helmsman cannot refuse, so takes one by one, two coiled tidily mooring lines, not attached to the boat and throws all of them to the quay. English gentleman starts to make them fast on the metal eyes on the quay, asking in the meantime: “It is Your first day of the charter I presume?”. The answer: “No, the fourth!” for the first time make the Englishman looking little surprised. Fastened lines go back to the Bavaria and her skipper works hardly on tying them to the cleats. Next the skipper and his mate properly decide to further tighten the anchor rode, in order to put some distance between the stern and the quay, for lowering the bathing platform, as first try to do it ends completely unsuccessful. Unhappily, for some mysterious reason, just after engaging the windlass, the anchor jumps up from the water. The obvious case of extremely bad holding bottom of course. A kind of war council is taking place on the bow of Bavaria, for some reasons by whisper only. From the body talk the whole auditorium can understand as the lady is insisting on some decisive effort to reset the anchor. Her intention prevail as somebody inform them, that the passing by high speed huge ferry is expected in an hour or two, and the wash can just annihilate the unanchored boat. This is rather alarmist and exaggerated, as the ferry should pass in four hours rather than two, and the wash can smash no more than a half of boat, anyway such an information speeds up the decision process. The dinghy is lowered to the water, anchor to the dinghy and the brave helmsman goes rowing violently. His mate is putting chain out by windlass, looking carefully to keep it straight and tight. For some not easy to understand reason, after some meters the rower cannot push the boat further. Quick visual check reveals no underwater obstruction of any kind, but the helmsman, rower, single hero on the dinghy is losing this fight. Dinghy is back closer and closer to the bow of Bavaria. Next sitting of the war council is held and change of tactic decided. This time the bunch of chain is going to the dinghy. Solitary hero starts to row again. Rowing, and throwing the chain out is difficult. Wind abated somewhat, but is still gusting about full Force One, and this is probably the reason why the dinghy is drifting further and further to starboard, crossing over anchor chains of all three yachts moored on this side, and entering the area of fishermen moorings.
The helmsman is completely exhausted now, so he makes the last heroic effort and accompanied by unison scream of the all harbour: “Noooo!!!! Not there!!!!!!!!!!” he throws the anchor out of the dinghy, probably just by the force of will.
In an instant the brave woman on the foredeck engages the winch, taking the slack up. After just a seconds the rode is tight like a string in a piano and not so big Delta sets wonderfully in the mess of beefy dead-mooring chains and lines on the bottom. Bavaria is now turned some 30 degrees to the starboard, but her anchor hold like all rocks of the world, like the hero of Disney’s tale….

So You see… Size and design of anchor are not so important as Great Art of Anchoring is…

[downunder]

Originally Posted by DoubleWhisky

Sometime size of the anchor is meaningless, and design of the anchor is meaningless…
Just try to imagine…
Nice evening in Greece. Charming little harbour of Kioni on the Ithaca island.
A handful of boats Med moored to the quay. Light wind coming from the entrance.
Total calm and beauty.
36 ft Bavaria gliding slowly to the harbour, under engine, low revs. All people on boats looking who is coming. Bavaria showing worn out Greek flag back and white cross on red rectangle under spreader – so probably charter boat with Swiss crew. A couple in early thirties on board, man at the helm and woman on foredeck, windlass remote in hand. Two children in lifejackets in cockpit. Lady on the bow looking around. Found two free spots, waving her free hand to the man behind the wheel. Bavaria is slowly turning 90 degrees to port, then stopping, and starting to move backwards, towards the British flagged, rather big Bene, with two free mooring slots on both sides. The man gives some command and the woman on foredeck lowers the bower. Delta, not so decent size. And it is too late and too close to the quay in the Kioni. Harbour is kind of sunken canyon, anchor go to 10 – 12 meters by average, deeper in places. At the bow of moored boat it is some 6 metres or more, so plenty of scope is needed… Windlass on Bavaria is working. Klick, klick, klick…. And afer a few seconds it stops. Anchor is dangling probably some 4 may be 5 meters under the water level. Lady is looking with admiration at helmsman executing his difficult task of driving the boat into the slot in crosswind. Crosswind of about 1 B, but it is gusting to almost 2 B. No wonder that the boat is pushed by this ferocious wind to the starboard. Almost hitting the bow of British Bene. In the front of disaster the lady boldly lets another two or three meters of chain to go out, and deep satisfaction on her face shows that only her action saved the yachts. The man at the helm, staying face back, on opposite side of the pedestal is totally concentrated. A burst of back revs moment after near miss with Brit, and Bavaris is well into the second slot. Burst forward stops her. The bow goes to the starboard, and Bavaria touches the next boat. This one is well moored, so heroic helmsman can use her like a shoehorn to get Bavaria completely into the slot, touching the quay by stern. Anchor chain is not completely vertical, some angle can be seen by bare eyes, so yes, the anchor actually touched the bottom. The brave lady on the bow looks at the chain somewhat suspiciously, but the rode is quite tight, so assured of the good holding she parts with the remote and goes towards the cockpit.
The kind gentleman from British boat is standing on the quay ready to accept the mooring lines, but the helmsman of Bavaria probably do not want to disturb older man and is starting the chat. Meanwhile the lady occupies herself, taking the lifejackets off the children. At this moment the decks of other boats are full of spectators. All silent, observing, waiting. You can almost physically feel the tension and suspense. And hear the Englishman, asking politely: “Can You be so kind and throw Your mooring lines to me?”. Helmsman cannot refuse, so takes one by one, two coiled tidily mooring lines, not attached to the boat and throws all of them to the quay. English gentleman starts to make them fast on the metal eyes on the quay, asking in the meantime: “It is Your first day of the charter I presume?”. The answer: “No, the fourth!” for the first time make the Englishman looking little surprised. Fastened lines go back to the Bavaria and her skipper works hardly on tying them to the cleats. Next the skipper and his mate properly decide to further tighten the anchor rode, in order to put some distance between the stern and the quay, for lowering the bathing platform, as first try to do it ends completely unsuccessful. Unhappily, for some mysterious reason, just after engaging the windlass, the anchor jumps up from the water. The obvious case of extremely bad holding bottom of course. A kind of war council is taking place on the bow of Bavaria, for some reasons by whisper only. From the body talk the whole auditorium can understand as the lady is insisting on some decisive effort to reset the anchor. Her intention prevail as somebody inform them, that the passing by high speed huge ferry is expected in an hour or two, and the wash can just annihilate the unanchored boat. This is rather alarmist and exaggerated, as the ferry should pass in four hours rather than two, and the wash can smash no more than a half of boat, anyway such an information speeds up the decision process. The dinghy is lowered to the water, anchor to the dinghy and the brave helmsman goes rowing violently. His mate is putting chain out by windlass, looking carefully to keep it straight and tight. For some not easy to understand reason, after some meters the rower cannot push the boat further. Quick visual check reveals no underwater obstruction of any kind, but the helmsman, rower, single hero on the dinghy is losing this fight. Dinghy is back closer and closer to the bow of Bavaria. Next sitting of the war council is held and change of tactic decided. This time the bunch of chain is going to the dinghy. Solitary hero starts to row again. Rowing, and throwing the chain out is difficult. Wind abated somewhat, but is still gusting about full Force One, and this is probably the reason why the dinghy is drifting further and further to starboard, crossing over anchor chains of all three yachts moored on this side, and entering the area of fishermen moorings.
The helmsman is completely exhausted now, so he makes the last heroic effort and accompanied by unison scream of the all harbour: “Noooo!!!! Not there!!!!!!!!!!” he throws the anchor out of the dinghy, probably just by the force of will.
In an instant the brave woman on the foredeck engages the winch, taking the slack up. After just a seconds the rode is tight like a string in a piano and not so big Delta sets wonderfully in the mess of beefy dead-mooring chains and lines on the bottom. Bavaria is now turned some 30 degrees to the starboard, but her anchor hold like all rocks of the world, like the hero of Disney’s tale….

So You see… Size and design of anchor are not so important as Great Art of Anchoring is…

Brilliant !!!!!!!! riveting stuff.

[noelex 77]

Good story.
Watching people anchor is great entertainment, better than TV.

How well they have anchored is also useful to know if they are going to be in a position to drag into you. At least that's how I justify the voyerism

[Jimbo485]

Fantastic non-fiction, DoubleWhisky!!

Please, use your writing and observation skills to describe the actions of a yacht docking after 4(?) days of experience.

And, c'mon, we have all been on both sides of this fence at some time or another!

[DoubleWhisky]

Originally Posted by Jimbo485

Fantastic non-fiction, DoubleWhisky!!

Please, use your writing and observation skills to describe the actions of a yacht docking after 4(?) days of experience.

And, c'mon, we have all been on both sides of this fence at some time or another!

Sure, I do not wish remember all embarrasement I ought to go through after my own mistakes

But such a spectacle - from the spectator's point of view...
Priceless

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by JonJo

Interesting update

40 Tips On Anchoring Gear........

There is more and more.

#22 is: Don’t use a swivel. They add a dangerous weak link to no good purpose.

Brilliant. Many of us have been trying to say and HAVE said this many, many times.

Thanks for that suggestion.

[boatman61]

If it don't hang your prop outa the water.. your good to go..
Now ya know why I've so many posts..

[Bayside Bert28]

Originally Posted by JonJo

But how big is the Fortress.

You say 'I have never set the anchor successfully and had it slip' - the implication might be that you have set it unsuccessfully - elaborate?

Our experience is as yours - set it and it hold like concrete, it can be, is, defeated like all anchors by very heavy weed - but in sparse weed, where you can sea the seabed between the weed, it can be set successfully

Jonathan

Fortress is an FX55 - I suppose 55 lbs. Pretty small.

[JonJo]

A FX-55 is pretty big (in my terms, 38') - rated to hold something like a 55' yacht

Jonathan

[DoubleWhisky]

Originally Posted by JonJo

A FX-55 is pretty big (in my terms, 38') - rated to hold something like a 55' yacht

Jonathan

Yes, but only up to 30 kts wind with moderate protection from the seas, so for 55 ft boat it is not all-round anchor.
For storm Fortress advice is to go size or two up (depending on conditions).
The beauty of Fortress for me is, that You can have a bunch of them on board if You wish, and change between them easily, how situation dictates.

Merry Christmas to all

[JonJo]

Maybe read post No 1 and then the last 20 posts.

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s...n-australia-76

Merry Christmas

Jonathan