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Old 01-06-2006, 02:36   #31
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Yikes, do I dare jump in?
Rick, the roll bar I feel is actually a good idea. I have had situations where my CQR is not lying on the bottom correctly to start setting. This is usually when some one with good intentions is trying to help me setting the anchor. One reason why I have that remote controled now. I can dial out just what I want, so as the anchor is "flying" in the water correctly.

Interesting to hear your opinion about the Danforth Craig. I have seen the Danforth work exceptionaly well. The Fortress take the Danforth to a whole new level again, and the Fortress takes some seriouse strain.

Actually Craig, you aren't new to your anchor design. I have toyed with the same design for some time now. Why, because it is a rather standard design principle to most of the mussel industries anchors here in Marlborough. These anchors have to support litteraly hundreds of thousands of tons of force as huge flotations of mussle lines try to be dragged by seriuose tidal races. Your design however, gave me some finesse to the more "industrial" design the mussle companies carve out of large plates of steel.

There is a very important point to make here to everyone reading and building anchors and what have you. Weight of an anchor has very little determining factor on how an anchor will dig in a set. Personaly, I see weight as unnecessary. So yes Rick, I would like to think I have made some improvements. I have certainly had to, so as I can gain strength fromt eh light weight 316 SST I have used. As Craig has pointed out to me, the Bisalloy80 is far stronger and his anchor design is much thicker and as such, much heavier. But I honestly think my design will indeed take what ever pull I can throw at it. However, as I said earlier, I have yet to do extensive testing with it and it isn't totaly finished yet. When I finish it, I will post some photo's.
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Old 01-06-2006, 17:00   #32
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What works best in the great lakes...

The original question was "...what anchor works best in the Great Lakes area?"
To my mind the effectivness of an anchor depends on the bottom type so surely we need to know what is the bottom of the Great Lakes is like?
i.e. Can someone who has actually anchored there tell us what was on his/her anchor when they pulled it up (mud, grass, seaweed, sand, totally clean etc) ?
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Old 01-06-2006, 17:27   #33
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Ive actually anchored in all of the Great Lakes, except Michigan, and have noted what was on my anchor when I pulled it up as follows:
mud, grass, seaweed, sand, totally clean and/or etc...
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Old 06-06-2006, 15:43   #34
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I have anchored in Lake Michigan and what I consistantly found on my anchor when I pulled it up was:

mud, grass, seaweed, sand, totally clean and/or etc...

I have anchored all over Huron and Michigan with a Danforth. The reason for this is because I was younger and less informed on anchors and, more importantly, too poor to buy anything more expensive and too young to be any wiser.

I had both great and horrible experiences with the Danforth. In my present years, I am having both great and horrible experiences with my CQR and Delta. The difference between the Danforth and CQR/Delta experiences is that there was absolutely NO predictability between the good and bad experiences with the Danforth, and I experience much fewer bad CQR/Delta episodes (actually, just one or two). At least with the CQR/Delta, I always know when the possibility for a bad experience exists by the difficulties in setting it. Once set, I have only dragged a single time, and that was in weeds on short scope in Block Island on a CQR. I have never dragged the Delta, but I have had a couple of times when I had to work to get it set.

The Danforth was not trustworthy. It would seemingly pop out unexpectedly, and always at 2am. Many, many, many times it would catch a clam, rock, stick, etc in its flukes and be less useful than simply throwing a brick overboard. I mean, it did this A LOT. This is an important point in the Great Lakes, because you will find a lot of mud/sand bottoms with fist-sized rounded rocks distributed throughout like raisins in a pudding. These will be the cause of your Danforth failing many times. It did hold very well in mud as long as the wind stayed in a single direction. I never got it set well in weeds.

For my present boat, I will get rid of the Bruce and Delta (CQR already gone) and buy a Bulwagga and either a Rocna or Spade. Getting rid of the Delta will be aesthetically difficult, as it is a stainless one and I'm too cheap to spring for a stainless Rocna/Spade (unless Craig or Alain will cut me a good deal!).

I know Craig makes the argument that one doesn't need two anchors, but I have lost anchors several times and don't feel comfortable only having one on board. I think the Bulwagga, Rocna and Spade are all great primary anchors that can be used solely in almost all bottoms. I don't see a lot of differentiation between Rocna and Spade (forgive me Craig and Alain), so one of these will be on board. I have friends around here with the Bulwagga and that thing slices through weeds. Thus the logic behind it as my other anchor choice.

There, I managed to thread-drift and contribute to an anchor war. Can I have another little star under my name now?

Mark
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Old 06-06-2006, 23:16   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj
The Danforth was not trustworthy. It would seemingly pop out unexpectedly, and always at 2am. Many, many, many times it would catch a clam, rock, stick, etc in its flukes and be less useful than simply throwing a brick overboard. I mean, it did this A LOT. This is an important point in the Great Lakes, because you will find a lot of mud/sand bottoms with fist-sized rounded rocks distributed throughout like raisins in a pudding. These will be the cause of your Danforth failing many times. It did hold very well in mud as long as the wind stayed in a single direction. I never got it set well in weeds.
There we go, that's what we're talking about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj
For my present boat, I will get rid of the Bruce and Delta (CQR already gone) and buy a Bulwagga and either a Rocna or Spade. Getting rid of the Delta will be aesthetically difficult, as it is a stainless one and I'm too cheap to spring for a stainless Rocna/Spade (unless Craig or Alain will cut me a good deal!).
Excellent, a convert!

There are two advantages to stainless: shiny looks (which usually don't stay very shiny once coated in dried mud), and the somewhat questionable advantage that you don't need to re-galvanize every 5 years or so. That is all.

There are many disadvantages, the main one being price, and the other being strength. Most anchor manufacturers use 316 stainless, and it is simply very weak. Weaker than mild steel and about a third the strength of the high tensile stuff we use for our shanks.

Accordingly, for our stainless versions, we use a high tensile grade of SS for the shank, which unfortunately inflates the first disadvantage (price), as the metal itself is just insanely expensive.

The fact is we feel it's necessary, and are unwilling to compromise strength and durability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj
I know Craig makes the argument that one doesn't need two anchors, but I have lost anchors several times and don't feel comfortable only having one on board. I think the Bulwagga, Rocna and Spade are all great primary anchors that can be used solely in almost all bottoms. I don't see a lot of differentiation between Rocna and Spade (forgive me Craig and Alain), so one of these will be on board. I have friends around here with the Bulwagga and that thing slices through weeds. Thus the logic behind it as my other anchor choice.
I don't say you only need one anchor, I say you usually only need one type of anchor (so long as it's the right type), at most two types, and therefore the minimum would be two anchors, and then add as many as you like for spares and auxillaries. Just there's no real need with modern designs to diversify the type in order for each anchor to address the flaws of the others. I think having a Bulwagga and Rocna and/or Spade would be about the best set-up possible, especially if you're dealing with weed.

With regard to Rocna vs. Spade, well of course I could tell you all about it, after all Peter did know about Spade when he designed his first Rocna (and rejected it as not good enough), but in the context of plows and Danforths, both are streets ahead, and that's enough anchor-wars for now.

Mark if you want stainless, e-mail me and we'll try to get a decent price for you (they're only built to order).
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Old 07-06-2006, 06:01   #36
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Bespoke anchors! Surely now, there's rich ground for mirth in that.<G>
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Old 28-06-2006, 20:08   #37
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Now THIS is/was a worthwhile discussion!!!

I don't know if it is relavent, but has anyone any experience with availability of the Rocna anchors in the US?? I have not been able to find any sources. The Canadian source I found is rather expensive in comparison to other alternatives (Manson Supreme?)

Keith
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Old 28-06-2006, 20:18   #38
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Now THIS is/was a worthwhile discussion!!!

I don't know if it is relavent, but has anyone any experience with availability of the Rocna anchors in the US?? I have not been able to find any sources. The Canadian source I found is rather expensive in comparison to other alternatives (Manson Supreme?)

Keith
I posted this on the Rocna thread but will repeat it here for the wider audience.

Look at importing a Rocna from NZ in the short term, although distributors in the US will be being set-up properly in a little while.

With regard to copies, no comment, save to say that as with all copies and knock-offs you get what you pay for. The originals are usually better, think CQR, Bruce, etc, as the copiers haven't had the benefit of experience involved in the design's development (i.e. they frequently don't really know what they're doing ).

There are also some construction issues with the Rocna that inflate its cost a bit, which can be removed by making several compromises that the average consumer without an engineering or technical background would not notice. Making those short-cuts is comensurate with the attitude required to copy something in the first place, yes? Short term gain for long term loss.
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Old 28-06-2006, 20:25   #39
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I actually did not know the chronology of the Manson vs Racnor. Only have the websites as sources so far. How is one to determine relative merits!?!

Ah well...
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