Anchorlift Windlass

[cat man do]

Anyone had experience good or bad with these?

Anchorlift - The Complete Windlass System

I was looking at these Mako M1512 for my boat and the usd to aud is looking mighty fine at the moment and was wondering if it was worth the punt.

They have a few for sale on eBay at the moment HERE.

The comparison in a Muir is an Atlantic 4000 Capstan and as you can see there is a bit of a difference in price.

[cat man do]

Looking at these options again I find that the calculation on size for most is (from Maxwell)



So for me thats a Manson Supreme 80lb (36kg) overkill
30 metres of 10mm chain =70kg

Anchor + Chain x 3 = 318kg MAX pull

This is for an 8000kg (full disp) 50 x 24 powercat as in avatar

Is this the correct way to size a winch?

So, according to those numbers I should be OK with a

Maxwell VWC 1000
1000 watt motor 455kg max pull
$2099-00 aud
3 year warranty
Vertical Windlass and Capstan Range

Muir Storm VR1250 (no capstan GRrrr)
1000 watt motor 500kg max pull
$2149 aud
I think they have a 3 year warranty, their site is shite and lacking.
Welcome To Muir - The World Power In Anchoring Systems - Storm, Atlantic, Compact Winches.

OR

Anchorlift Mako M1512
1500 watt motor 1200kg max pull
$1493 aud delivered to Australia
Massive 5 year warranty
Anchorlift - Windlasses: 40-65 foot Boats

Ones looking a lot more powerful, better warranty and more affordable than the others.

Comments?

[knottybuoyz]

Heya Cat

I've got the Anchorlift Dolphin. 1100 watt model with the capstan. 5/16" chain & 9/16" rope. Came with everything except the wire to put it all together. Haven't built the boat around it yet but it appears to be well engineered and the price is reasonable. Went one size over recommended for our boat. Other than that I can't add much more.

[cat man do]

Thanks Rick

On paper they look better than OK and being Norwegian build you would like to think the build quality would be a bit better than most.



Going on the Maxwell sizing chart I am almost 3 times larger than needed, I find that VERY hard to believe and wonder if I have sized it correctly?

[knottybuoyz]

Originally Posted by cat man do

I find that VERY hard to believe and wonder if I have sized it correctly?

Well bigger is better in almost everything unless you can't provide enough juice to run it or it's so heavy it tips your nose down too much. I dunno. A safety factor of at least 1 size over recommended would be reasonable. Three times maybe depends on the type of anchoring you're doing. Expecting to ride out some Typhoon's then maybe the heaver ground tackle & chain is good insurance.

[GMac]

OK a few comments here.

Don't believe all the loads, many are just not achievable in real life. I would be so seriously gobsmacked you could knock me down with just one Wombat hair if the Mako pulled anything close to 1200kg.
There is no set standard procedure for testing anchor winch loads between manufactures so comparing numbers can be a bit tricky sometimes.
The motor is only one small part of the load pulling, the gearbox has more input than motor wattage.

Very recently I got to observe a test where a 600W winch from a manufacturer (one you have listed below) was fixed to the end of a big plank. An equivalent class one from another big name brand (not listed), which had a 900W motor, was fixed to the other. A length of chain was put between the 2 and both winches started. The 600W easily made ground on the 900W even with the 900W running..... and quickly starting to smell real bad. The gearboxes is where the smaller motor won.

Cat, as someone who does this day in day out I'll make a few observations of your intended system, just because I can

Muir do have capstan models of all their winches inc the 1250.
I think you will be disappointed if you run with the Max 1000 or Muir 1250, they are bottem end sizes for a 10mm chain, great for 8mm but a little light for 10mm. If you stick with only 30mts the 1000/1250 will be OK but if you ever want to add weight to your system you will be starting to push those winches. I would seriously recommend you go up a size to the Max or Muir 2200's.
Buy the Anchorlift if you like but beware you will also have to buy your chain from outside of Australia. Anchorlift don't make gypsies that take AS2321 Std 10mm chain. The chain the Mako will need is available in NZ though. Or maybe you could get a gypsy made but I'd be thinking you'll need to add at least $500 for that.
Also no warrantee in Aussie if you buy from the US. The 5 years is bloody good but not on a US brought winch in Oz I would expect.

Don't get me wrong here as I think all 3 options are bloody good in the right situation. As much as I do like the way your looking at all options I'm not sure you are looking at quite the right right options for your situation.

And with all respect to Anchorlift, who I think make a good winch, I do believe the Maxwells and Muirs are built stronger and will out last the AL.

With boat gear if you think life time cost rather than purchase price, which I know is very hard, often you will do better.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by GMac

OK a few comments here.

Don't believe all the loads, many are just not achievable in real life. I would be so seriously gobsmacked you could knock me down with just one Wombat hair if the Mako pulled anything close to 1200kg.
There is no set standard procedure for testing anchor winch loads between manufactures so comparing numbers can be a bit tricky sometimes.
The motor is only one small part of the load pulling, the gearbox has more input than motor wattage.

Very recently I got to observe a test where a 600W winch from a manufacturer (one you have listed below) was fixed to the end of a big plank. An equivalent class one from another big name brand (not listed), which had a 900W motor, was fixed to the other. A length of chain was put between the 2 and both winches started. The 600W easily made ground on the 900W even with the 900W running..... and quickly starting to smell real bad. The gearboxes is where the smaller motor won.

Which confirms comment that was made by one of Australia's many Anchor windlass resellers

Maxwell would certainly be my preferred option.
It is simple, robust and reliable. Spare parts are easy to obtain and the gearboxes are quite good. They make their own in-house.
They don’t just adapt an existing gearbox, such as bonfiglioli and bang a motor in the end

But lets not forget that the Anchorlift is a 1500watt motor compared to the less powered competition, though I appreciate what you say.

I once had a Nissan Homer ute that had a 1600cc motor in it and I believe could carry a full 1 ton load. It had a top speed of about 80klm but could chirp the tyres in first and second and 3rd and it could damn near wheelstand in first if I punched it hard enough.
The gearbox and diff were quite robust
(I think the seller of that vehicle is on drugs with that price)

Cat, as someone who does this day in day out I'll make a few observations of your intended system, just because I can

Muir do have capstan models of all their winches inc the 1250.
I think you will be disappointed if you run with the Max 1000 or Muir 1250, they are bottom end sizes for a 10mm chain, great for 8mm but a little light for 10mm. If you stick with only 30mts the 1000/1250 will be OK but if you ever want to add weight to your system you will be starting to push those winches. I would seriously recommend you go up a size to the Max or Muir 2200's.

So you obviously disagree that 3 x anchor+chain is a suitable winch sizing formula?

The 2200 was what I was suggested by the above reseller , but price quoted doesn't sound remotely as appealing as $1200

Buy the Anchorlift if you like but beware you will also have to buy your chain from outside of Australia. Anchorlift don't make gypsies that take AS2321 Std 10mm chain. The chain the Mako will need is available in NZ though. Or maybe you could get a gypsy made but I'd be thinking you'll need to add at least $500 for that.
Also no warrantee in Aussie if you buy from the US. The 5 years is bloody good but not on a US brought winch in Oz I would expect.

Well I can buy them In Aus as well from Southern Seas Marine who have something to do with McIntyre Marine Products , seeing as they are sold here I would assume they suit Oz chain and the warranty would be taken care of.
If I had a boat with Lewmar (for example) that sailed to another country are you saying it cannot get warranty work performed on that winch because they are not in country of purchase?

Don't get me wrong here as I think all 3 options are bloody good in the right situation. As much as I do like the way your looking at all options I'm not sure you are looking at quite the right right options for your situation.

And with all respect to Anchorlift, who I think make a good winch, I do believe the Maxwells and Muirs are built stronger and will out last the AL.

fair comment

With boat gear if you think life time cost rather than purchase price, which I know is very hard, often you will do better.

I do agree, to a degree but I could very easily blow it out to a $250k build compared to a $100k(and a bit) build, after all I could have used ATL composites resin, cores and reinforcements adding substantially to the build cost

Or purchased Steyer diesels instead of the Cummins that I have etc etc etc etc.

I am not totally convinced that more expensive makes better.

[GMac]

Originally Posted by cat man do

Which confirms comment that was made by one of Australia's many Anchor windlass resellers

But lets not forget that the Anchorlift is a 1500watt motor compared to the less powered competition, though I appreciate what you say.

900W is a clean 50% more than 600W yet the 600W still easily won the pulling contest. Not having lined a Mako against a VWC for example I don't know but I just have a gut feeling one isn't going to be hugely different than the other. Maxwell are known to have seriously good gearboxes.

So you obviously disagree that 3 x anchor+chain is a suitable winch sizing formula?

The 2200 was what I was suggested by the above reseller , but price quoted doesn't sound remotely as appealing as $1200

The 3 times thing I think is good I just don't trust all the numbers published as to pulling loads of the winches. I think and know many numbers will never be achievable on a boat. In a factory test under ideal conditions while pulled slowly with no shock loads using new gear and plugged into some power station, yes just but out in the big wide world of icky, wet, used gear plugged into a 12V boat system? No way.

Generally the biggest chain listed to each winch is for use on that winch by the nice Sunday afternoon Ma and Pa outing for a quite lemonade with the grand kids. For a cruiser they shouldn't be looking at the biggest chain possible that can fit, they want the next one down.

You ask the winch dudes and everyone will say this. Why it's not more clearly stated in some catalogues I supposed you'd need to ask the marketing Dept.

Price, yes I know it's a bugger but just a fact of life really. If I had a $1 for everytime someone said to me "I should have spend the extra dollars and not had this grief", I wouldn't be wealthy but my liver could be starting to get a tad nervous with the beers brought.

Well I can buy them In Aus as well from Southern Seas Marine who have something to do with McIntyre Marine Products , seeing as they are sold here I would assume they suit Oz chain and the warranty would be taken care of.

Warranty should be sweet then. Never seen a AL winch with a Aussie Std gypsy and none are listed as available by the manufacturer. They may have made some but it certainly is one thing worth asking before writing a cheque. But then again if you can't get a Aus Std gypsy and have to run a DIN std, that is a good thing if you are going to wonder the world. The Aus Std is peculiar to Aus and NZ but even in NZ it is fading away in lieu of the default world Std which is DIN. But yet again, the AS2321 Std 10mm is a very very close match to the EN818-3 so that's handy. NOTE: Not all AS Std chains are inter changeable with some other Std.

If I had a boat with Lewmar (for example) that sailed to another country are you saying it cannot get warranty work performed on that winch because they are not in country of purchase?

A little different. Offshore agents generally don't mind looking at a cruisers winch which has issues. But why should the local dudes sort out any problems with yours if you decided to shortcut them and buy offshore? You'll find most will but not under warranty so it could cost you. AL maybe different but I know the local guys here won't do no-cost warranty work on winches purchased offshore by a local, same applies to most gear not just winches. That is assuming the gear in question wasn't fitted to a boat purchased offshore.

I am not totally convinced that more expensive makes better.

Me either but I am 99% convinced people who run 10mm chain on 2200's are a lot happier than those who do on 1000's/1250's

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by GMac

Me either but I am 99% convinced people who run 10mm chain on 2200's are a lot happier than those who do on 1000's/1250's

Yep, stands to reason, but in reality the 1000's and 1250's weren't the ones I was seriously considering if reading my second post

.....Is this the correct way to size a winch?

So, according to those numbers I should be OK with a......(1000/1250)

I had figured a larger winch was required, which makes it 3 times more expensive which I had budgeted for but a saving is a saving.

I have sent a lengthy email with many questions to both anchorlift USA and Norway and await a response.

[GMac]

Yeap, 'should be' unless you add weight and then you're starting to push them a bit.

I'd be very interested in both what you asked and what they reply with. Always handy to know stuff like that.

[osirissail]

Don't forget about the two different chain/rode paths - one horizontal around a drum/gypsy with the motor mounted below decks; and the other vertical drum/gypsy with the motor mounted on top of the deck. Servicing the horizontal (which I have) is a royal pain trying to get to the motor below decks and having to disassemble the whole mess to get it off the boat. With the vertical models with the motor on deck, it is very easy to service the motor and the whole Windlass unbolts off the deck without having to be disassembled in smaller parts.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by osirissail

Don't forget about the two different chain/rode paths - one horizontal around a drum/gypsy with the motor mounted below decks; and the other vertical drum/gypsy with the motor mounted on top of the deck. Servicing the horizontal (which I have) is a royal pain trying to get to the motor below decks and having to disassemble the whole mess to get it off the boat. With the vertical models with the motor on deck, it is very easy to service the motor and the whole Windlass unbolts off the deck without having to be disassembled in smaller parts.

Haven't you got that mixed up?

The horizontal motor is above deck (and more exposed to the elements)

The vertical motor is below deck (and more protected from the elements)

At the end of the day, my anchor locker and hatch is large enough for me to climb into and comfortably sit in, and I am a big bloke.

[vacendak]

After thorough choise between Lewmar / Maxwell / Lofrans etc.
bought MAKO 1524 + 100m / 10mm chain (Bradney) + Shark 30 anchor
for a 45" sail cruiser. No regrets so far, and does not seem oversized.
Their "fast-drop" feature is of good use sometimes, too.

Still, an Aquarius might be better for boat your size and windage (IMHO)
Correct windlass sizing tables may be found in Nigel Calder's
"Practical & Technical cruising manual"

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by vacendak

After thorough choise between Lewmar / Maxwell / Lofrans etc.
bought MAKO 1524 + 100m / 10mm chain (Bradney) + Shark 30 anchor
for a 45" sail cruiser. No regrets so far, and does not seem oversized.
Their "fast-drop" feature is of good use sometimes, too.

Still, an Aquarius might be better for boat your size and windage (IMHO)
Correct windlass sizing tables may be found in Nigel Calder's
"Practical & Technical cruising manual"

Thanks for that.

Lewmar was firmly off my list but Maxwell Lofrans Muir and now Anchorlift are on it.

I would have thought that your 45 ft Mono would have considerably more loading placed on the winch than my vessel but perhaps I am missing something?

[vacendak]

cat man do

you may try to contact MCI (www.marinecomponents.co.uk) - mr. David Cain.

He sold me a full set of anchoring equipment (i.e. MAKO 1524 + Bradney chain + 2 nice anchors + bow rollers + radio remotes + ...) for less than 1700 GBP altogether, including delivery.

Seemed a nice and competent person, helped much in correct system sizing.