Anchoring Stern-to in a Storm

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

If they break, they will topple over. In this case, some water does move towards you. But underwater where your rudder is -- never. Unless I deeply misunderstand how waves work.

I suggest you anchor stern to at Studland Bay this winter in a F7 - F8 Easterly with an unlashed rudder and let us know the result...
We know the holdings good with a sandy bottom... pictoral proof required..

[bruce smith]

mizzen

[Christian Van H]

Originally Posted by sneuman

Canoe stern/double enders exempted from #2?

I've always wondered how you know which way your boat is pointing...

[markpierce]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

If they break, they will topple over. In this case, some water does move towards you. But underwater where your rudder is -- never. Unless I deeply misunderstand how waves work.

On the surface, water in waves move in a circular pattern, and close to the surface, the water moves in the direction the wind is blowing towards.

File:Shallow water wave.gif - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Wiki site also has a deep-sea wave animation too.

[klem]

One of my relatives is a very accomplished sailor and always anchors off the stern of his boat because it works very well for that particular boat. I have spent many nights aboard and it indeed works well but I believe that it takes the right boat. His boat is essentially a double ender, the anchor locker is in the stern (very old wooden racing boat), the mast is far forward, and the stern cleats are very substantial.

The best part about it is the fact that the boat doesn't sail around at anchor. It sits to the wind better than any other boat that I have been on. I suspect most boats that are close to double enders would sit better this way in anything short of a large waves.

Anchor handling is very easy, you can steer, operate the engine controls and adjust your seats from the same position. One difficulty is that you cannot raise the sails while at anchor. You can raise the anchor, raise the jib and then raise the main once you are underway or you can just use the engine.

There is a great breeze down the companionway but it is unpleasant with driving rain since you have to completely close it up. It is also not great for colder nights.

The thing that I worry about the most with it is the rudder. Since the boat sits so nicely to the wind, that is not an issue but large waves will put a fair amount of stress on it. I also wonder whether it would be better or worse to try to get underway if you are dragging (I am tempted to say better since you can slowly reverse while retrieving the anchor). And then there is always the annoyance of everyone thinking that you have no clue what you are doing and coming over to tell you how to actually anchor.

[Wand]

I anchor stern-to but only in light airs and only to direct cool airs into the cockpit and cabin on hot days. With any sea though the slapping outweighs the benefits - but I don't suppose that would be an issue is storm conditions. This is a worthy discussion with lots of good thoughts and techniques to consider but it's not enough yet for me to commit to a stern-to posture in storm conditions. Call me old fashioned, but I still prefer the thought of the strong pointy end facing the weather and all the more delicate bits at the more protected aft end. As others have said, the use of drogues or mizzens can help with the sailing at anchor problem which, if you know the gear is strong, is usually the least of worries in those circumstances anway.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I've been trying to work out just how one actually does this, barring carrying a second bower anchor, chain and windlass in the stern of the boat. Just how would you re-lead the chain from the bow to the stern where you would then somehow attach your bridle? For this argument, lets assume that there are adequately strong cleats available on the quarters. And then, how would you recover the anchor, especially if you had to leave whilst the conditions were still fierce? Seems pretty daunting to me, and I'd love to hear how others might approach the situation.

In the case of Insatiable II, the situation is exacerbated by our longish sugar scoop transom. Mostly I quite like having it, but it does interfere with stern anchor recovery! But that's not YOUR problem!

Cheers,

Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II lying Coffs Harbour, NSW, Oz, rolling our guts out

Been thinking about how to give this a try without major refit on the boat and have an idea. First, rig a long snubber to the stern cleats and run the line around the shrouds up to the bow. Drop anchor and set like usual but with a little less scope. Attached the long snubbing line at the bow then release enough scope from the bow to let the snubber take up the load at the stern.

Have to think a bit more about what might happen with the long loop of chain from the bow. How much to let out, long loop or short, etc.

However, I'm less inclined to experiment here since my current boat does not sail around the anchor at all. If I leave the anchor line (chain or the nylon snubber I rig) running over the bow roller the boat sits dead to the wind, so far up to 35 kt gusts.

I've been totally amazed by this since every other boat I owned sailed about the anchor like a 12 meter in a tacking duel. When I first rigged a snubber I ran it through the chocks on the side of the bow and the sailing returned. Back to the roller and no sailing.

[boatman61]

In Europe and the Med having a big stern anchor is quite normal as often when mooring at a dock Med style one has to use ground tackle to hold either the bow or stern steady...
For example at the town quay in Andratx, Mallorca we would drop our kedge (same size as the bow anchor) 100 metres of the quay and motor in feeding out the warp till the bow was close enough for one of us to step off and make fast the docklines to the bollards... then the person on the bow would feed out the line to the desired distance and tie off... engine off and haul in on the anchor warp till the stern lined up... attach to port cleat then dinghy out with another line.. attach to warp about 5 metres out row back, take in slack and tie of on stbd cleat... in winter we'd use the bow anchor and tie up stern to as the Tramontana used to whistle down the valley... keeping the draught out was more important than easy docking..lol

[s/v Beth]

My boat would be the perfect one to test this theory, unfortunately, Beth sits like a slug on a rock in wind. She will change directions in current, but I have yet to see her hunting at anchor.

[troppo]

This is a bit of a tangent to the original question but anyway. My boat is moored in a creek in North Queensland, Australia, and with the official start of the cyclone season, I have received a list of tips from the port authority. One of the recommendations is to position the vessel bow upstream. Currently mine lies bow downstream as that direction basically faces into the prevailing winds. So, if I turn it around, it will be stern to the waves coming up the creek and instead of the cockpit being protected from blowing rain, it will come straight in. I guess there is benefit in doing bow upstream otherwise it wouldn't be recommended. And if a cyclone comes, wind could be coming from any which way, it won't just come the way the normal storm winds come.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

G'DAy all,

Another interesting discussion! And I'm inclined to agree with Dockhead's general analysis. In any somewhat protected anchorage, even in storm conditions, large breaking seas are uncommon, whilst sailing about violently is for us a normal, if upsetting, condition.

For those who postulate that the impact upon the stern of a possible breaking wave will excessively load the ground tackle... consider the position of the boat as it fetches up at the end of a big yaw. At that time, the wave train will be striking the flat side of the bow, not the pointy bit! So, similar loading might well occur.

So, in general, it seems like stern-to anchoring has some attractive aspects. But, I've been trying to work out just how one actually does this, barring carrying a second bower anchor, chain and windlass in the stern of the boat. Just how would you re-lead the chain from the bow to the stern where you would then somehow attach your bridle? For this argument, lets assume that there are adequately strong cleats available on the quarters. And then, how would you recover the anchor, especially if you had to leave whilst the conditions were still fierce? Seems pretty daunting to me, and I'd love to hear how others might approach the situation.

In the case of Insatiable II, the situation is exacerbated by our longish sugar scoop transom. Mostly I quite like having it, but it does interfere with stern anchor recovery! But that's not YOUR problem!

Cheers,

Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II lying Coffs Harbour, NSW, Oz, rolling our guts out

Off the top of my head, and never having done it this is pure hypothesis, I would say you would use your main bower anchor. You would set it as normally and let out almost all of your chain. Then you would tie on a line near the bitter end of the chain, lead this around the stern, and tie it off to a stern cleat. Then you would let go the chain and let the boat swing around. Then you would pull in the line to recover the bitter end of the chain, and attach your bridle. I don't see why it wouldn't work.

To recover, lead the end of the chain back up to the bow and put it on your windlass.

[Wand]

Although I wouldn't try it in a storm, as per my earlier post, I do commonly anchor stern-to in my outrigger. As the first pic shows, I am well set up for it. And (pic 2) the boat suits too, being like a double double-ender (more pics were posted in another thread). Anchoring this way is great for breezes on hot days, and it is also much easier to drop and retrieve the anchor from the cockpit and right beside the outboard. I recommend the approach; I just wouldn't trust it in a storm.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by troppo

This is a bit of a tangent to the original question but anyway. My boat is moored in a creek in North Queensland, Australia, and with the official start of the cyclone season, I have received a list of tips from the port authority. One of the recommendations is to position the vessel bow upstream. Currently mine lies bow downstream as that direction basically faces into the prevailing winds. So, if I turn it around, it will be stern to the waves coming up the creek and instead of the cockpit being protected from blowing rain, it will come straight in. I guess there is benefit in doing bow upstream otherwise it wouldn't be recommended. And if a cyclone comes, wind could be coming from any which way, it won't just come the way the normal storm winds come.

Good luck for the cyclone season. During a cyclone large debris is likely to be washed down creeks on many boats the design of the stern creates the possibility of this debris can be trapped by the water pressure creating problems. Things like large logs, even cars etc are less likely to be caught if they hit the bow first.
You are likely to get reasonable notice of any cyclone, but you need to have a well thought out plan beforehand.

[mrohr]

Stern anchor? sure ,in settled conditions,done it many times. In heavy weather you are risking your boat and more. Clearly your boat is designed to face head to wind and seas,much harder to retrieve anchor stern to ,esp. if dragging .Backing up to retrive a stern anchor is a recipe for a fouled prop;now you are dragging through the anchorage with a dragging anchor tied to your prop,what you gonna do now? Can't raise main with any wind astern and if you roll out the jib you will any drag faster and boat will not head up while dragging an anchor wraped around the prop. I wittnessed a Bristol 32 fill and sink at Block Is. a few years back when it picked up a lobster pot,lost power and draged ashore ,boat went aground in 4 ft and waves filled craft from stern in less than 5 mins. boat was atotal loss and crew waded ashore. Wind speed was less than 15 kts. Adrogue deployed astern in open water under extreme condition might be worth a try,but have'nt ever had to try this.
If your boat shears about at anchor ,get some of the junk off the decks ,esp. forward and start thinking about windage. If you have a more modern boat with full sections fwd and everything built up to increase interior volume, you will pay a price with some loss of seakeeping ability in a frisky anchorage,but you won't notice this effect in the dealers showroom.

[boatman61]

If you insist one anchoring astern forget using the bow/main anchor..... you know your anchoring preferences, depth, length etc... have a dedecated anchor and pre set chain/warp stored in a stern locker... anchor up using whatever method you choose to use...
Just make sure you have a marker bouy attatched to the end of your warp... things get hairy just start the motor, cast off and go... you can allways pick up your ground tackle when things calm down again.... its on the end of that white blob over there...