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Old 17-05-2007, 19:24   #31
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The only flood gates I know of at Aransas Pass are at the Pelican Cove subdivision that come off the Harbor West entrance channel and I dont know anyone there where I could tie up. Needless to say, I cannot afford one of those places to live in. Are there some other flood gates that I dont know about?

BUT...Hookin' Bull boatyard on Cove Harbor is not too far from Pelican Cove and I would prefer to be on the hard at Hookin' Bull than be in a canal that is protected by a 12' berm from a 15' surge. I dont consider either one of those places safe from a real hurricane. Those flood gates have never been tested by a hurricane as they are too new. There hasnt been a real hurricane since they were built. I would also worry about Pelican Cove because the channel along the causeway might act as a funnel from the gulf and fill up Pelican Cove.
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Old 17-05-2007, 20:45   #32
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Aloha,

Just a thot or two, and I'd like to echo GordMay's advice.... Unless you're forced to weather a hurricance against your choice - don't.

Until you've crawled on your stomach on the foredeck in 60-80ish miles an hour of wind because you can't stand up and you're wearing a diving mask because it's impossible to see thru the wind and rain that hurt so bad you think it must be like what shrapnel feels like, you just can't appreciate the ferocity of a typhoon. And this is just just child's play. I can't even imagine what 120 -140 MPH would be like.

I've been thru two hurricanes, Camille in the Gulf in ~ 1969 when we were 150+ miles from the eye and had incomprehensible seas and wind and almost lost the ship, and the other in the Marshall Islands in ~ 1998 which we weathered out on shore.... I'll take a small low-lying atoll ashore any day.

I remember hearing the cries of people who had decided to remain aboard over the VHF radio begging for help. It was heartbreaking, especially when there was absolutely nothing you could do to help. The visibility effectively zero, and pepole tying themselves to coconout trees to prevent being literally blown away.

Boats, no matter how dear, are replaceable - human life isn't. My advice is never, never, ever even think about staying on board. But that's just one sailor's opinion.

Aloha,
John Kuapa'a
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Old 18-05-2007, 06:26   #33
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John, you are correct, sir. Nether of us would stay aboard the boat during a blow. No one here is stupid, just trying to think of a safe place to put the boat. some place where it might still be there after the storm.

Cove Harbor is exposed to redfish bay, and Hookin' bull and house of boats are what, six feet above sea level. If we get a direct hit, Jimmy will loose the yard and everything in it. Boats and homes will be scatered all the way to the 35 bypass.

Pelican Cove, OK, untested gates, But you won't get the wave action, just the wind. And the area behind the new Strips store is wide open and 6 to 8 feet deep, clay bottom good holding. Most of the people who do not have boats would let you park yours behind their house. If you want to get to know some of these people, Join the APYC.

One person at Bahia, will take his boat up the channel and anchor on the south side of the channel in front of the Dow plant. 8 to 12 foot of water that is 300 yards wide. That is, of course, if he can get his 6 foot draft boat out of the marina. He may be one who would stay aboard his boat.

Post 9-11, pleasure craft are not allowed into the corpus christi ship channel... So running up the river is out.

In South Texas, lots of places you could run, but there are not many places you can hide. One more season, and I am out of here....
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Old 18-05-2007, 07:15   #34
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I was in Ivan in Grenada a couple of years back which was the first storm in 55 years there...so the passage of time is no guarantee of safety. We had winds over 180mph and in those type of conditions...no matter what you do to secure your boat...it is largely matter of luck if it will be there after the storm. Thankfully, most storms are not as intense and therewas very little damage to the prepared boats until the winds got over the 120mph mark. Those that fared the best in retrospect seem to be the ones that got into the mangroves and secured themselves with a web of lines rather than relying on anchors alone.
Given that experience, if I were in your shoes Jim...I think I would opt for the spiderweb in the canal...leaving plenty of slack for storm surge.

We used IMIS out out of Annapolis for our insurance which was actually a policy from Markel and we were treated with such good care in the aftermath that I highly recommend them to F/T cruisers. (www.imiscorp.net). I don't think they will be the best buy for stateside needs but they were way better than the service and hassels some of our neighbors got when we needed them.
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Old 18-05-2007, 07:38   #35
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Of the options you presented, I would personally go with option 1 and use the canal if it's OK for you to block the channel with your setup for a couple days. I would splice 10 ft lengths of chain to both ends of the channel lines and if you are securing it to pilings, wrap it around the piling and then nail it down using the biggest nails you can buy. The long lengths of line you are using, with good chafe protection, sound like they will allow you to weather storm surge. To protect from other boats, make sure you've got a friend for and aft of you in the canal, and make sure they are really well tied down, as well as you are, they will be your protection from boats breaking free. If everyone does that, you'll be fine. Last thing I would personally do is to have your channel lines shackled to a sea anchor swivel in the middle of the channel, (think a big X with the center of the X in the middle of the channel) rather than directly tied to your boat. You then secure your boat through long mooring lines to this central swivel. In that way your boat now has a mooring in the middle of the channel and can swing and point into the wind rather than take the force beam on as the weather clocks. You might think that the channel lines would interfere with your boats ability to swing, but you are giving the channel lines significant slack so that central pivot point can move a bit back and forth and accomodate the storm surge. When the wind clocks the tension side will always be in front of your boat and the other side slacks and sinks and your boat floats over. Once you have everthing setup as you wish, bring your dingy and pull your boat around the mooring swivel 360 degrees while pulling aft at full throttle, this will show you how everything will react when under tension as you simulate clocking winds and tension on the boat. Make sure that all points connecting the central swivel and to the shore are chain rope splice, and use the splice where the rode is weaved into the chain (very similar to a rope to rope splice) as it distributes the tension on the chain without sharp bends that you would have with a typical anchor chain splice where you put the rode through the chain only on the last link and then splice the rode back on itself. A friend and I came up with this strategy sitting in a hurricane hole, both of us live aboards, and staring at the setup for a day with a hurricane strike that was predicted to start in 5 days. Really focuses the mind. And do all of this 3 days before the strike, you will need the time to make sure everything is well setup, go to the boat supply store for more chain and shackles, and finally to test. Actually, what I've done is my dock lines are actually the exact rodes I just described (chain both ends, shacked back on itself and going around the pilings). As it's far longer than I need I keep the extra lengths coiled and hanging from my lifelines. That way when I hear that a hurricane has veered I can take my dock lines and have them become the land lines.

Best of luck!
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Old 18-05-2007, 10:06   #36
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you could always drive down a couple of BIG and TALL pilings if your situation permits it. tie off with BIG lines that can slip up and down with the storm surge. still if there are others around then you are at the mercy of their boats should they come loose. i lowered the amount of my coverage to 66% of the actual value of my boat this year and have a 1600.00 deductible with boat US.
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Old 18-05-2007, 13:33   #37
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Schoonerdog, how do you get a sailboat with those stick things sticking up out of it, and that big finthing under it, to swing "around" any one central mooring point in a channel? It's gona swing until it hits the first mooring line, and then come up against it and either stop, or saw through it and keep going.

What am I not understanding about your description?
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Old 22-05-2007, 14:58   #38
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I wish I had taken pictures when I had done it with another boat in a hurricane hole. Basically the 4 lines are each seperate lengths of rode with 10 ft lengths of chain on each side. One side of the chain goes around a piling and shackles onto itself. The other comes to the middle and attaches to what will be the bottome end of a sea anchor swivel. You give these land lines enough slack so the swivel can go 10 ft or so in either direction (20 ft total) off the central point (that's the critical part to make sure you avoid the situation you just described). After you've attached the four land lines to the swivel, you then attach your mooring bridle to the top part of the swivel and then release it. It sinks like a stone under water (lots of chain attached to it drag it down).

Now your boat is very securely attached with redundant land lines to the middle of the channel. When the wind start clocking up, you boat moves away from the wind and tensions the windward line and that one rides on the surface, the leeward lines though are slack and dragged down with the weight of the chain to the bottom while your boat glides over top. As the wind clocks, the new windward line comes up and the former sinks and you are always gliding over the leeward sunken line. I was anchored like this for around 10 days during hurricane isabelle and it worked perfectly. Again, to double check everything you take your dingy and pull your boat around in a complete circle simulating (to a degree) the change of the direction of the wind. That last run will tell you how far your boat will swing with the clocking winds and verify that you've got everything situated correctly.

When everything is setup you have a system that is more secure than any anchor and redundant in that you can loose any one of the land lines and still be centered. Remember you're not using your anchor, so you have all of that potential chain as well. Some might do the X setup with two crossed long lengths of chain and the swivel shackled to the middle... there are lots of options.
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Old 22-05-2007, 15:11   #39
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Sounds like the devil is in the details, as usual.

A short keel, a protected rudder, and lots of heavy chain, I guess. I'd just be leary of things pulling up short under unpredictable storm conditions--and then either tripping the boat on the keel, or fouling the rudder and ripping it off along with the prop.
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Old 22-05-2007, 17:13   #40
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It all sounds so beautiful, BUT...I have a 60 foot wide canal and a 37 foot long boat. It wouldnt work for me. Its hard enough to turn the boat around in 60 feet when standing at the helm with power....let alone let it go by itself. I will have to have it tied in a fixed position (fore and aft in the canal) and rely on the houses on either side to break the wind enough so that the pressure on the lines when the wind is broadside is not excessive. I calculated the rise and fall that I could take with 55' lines on either side to be well in excess of 35 feet. That should be enough...#8-)
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Old 15-08-2007, 04:05   #41
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i personally like the canal idea. that's my plan for my area. i see you are getting a tropical storm soon. and look out for Dean... with the uppers the way they are right now, he could b-line straight for the gulf. good luck, bud.
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Old 15-08-2007, 08:41   #42
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Well, its about time! BUT...I wish it wasnt coming. I really dont want to be battening down for a huricane. I have other things to do.
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Old 15-08-2007, 08:45   #43
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Take care Jim.
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Old 19-01-2008, 21:53   #44
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hurricane holes on East Coasts & marinas

Hello Everyone, I just joined the forum today. Been members of a couple others in the past and got a wealth of info from them. My husband and I purchased our dream boat in May of 2006. She is a 1972,42', Cheoy Lee Schooner. We bought her down in Saint Petersberg Florida in May and directly sailed her up the the Chesapeake to keep her safe from hurricanes. Needless to say, there were no hurricanes that season in Florida. Got to know the boat well though. Nothing teaches one faster than fixing things that break!
Anyway, we sailed her up to Maine last summer 07 and put her on the hard for the winter. Will get her splashed in June and then decide if we want to try and bring her closer to home,(Austin, Texas) or leave her back on the hard over winter and try and sail summer 2009 around Nova Scotia area.
I did not like the water in the Chesapeake, it was so brackish I did not want my dog in it. I loved the marina and I love the people up there, but I really want to be about to swim too.
Anyone know of a good marina with a full service yard, huricane safe and nice water??? Do not need fancy, but would like to be able to have her hauled or serviced if need be. Marina needs to be dog friendly too.
Thanks,
Lydia
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Old 19-01-2008, 22:56   #45
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Last time I was down that way in the Laguna (Corpus, South of Marker 37. Did I pull any of you'all of the hump? I lost count, only one sailboat north of Marker 37) a few years ago, we decided to run up to the river and head inland. The storm moved toward the river and we didn't make it in time. We ended up pulling into a fuel dock that was closed and vacated. Turned out we owed the dock for 650' of dockage at a per foot per day rate that cost a bundle of money (thousands per day) and we ran right into the storm.

We likely would have been better off to stay spudded down on the side of 'the ditch'.

It's a crap shoot either way you go in my opinion.


This is what Boat US has quoted me. (What determines the amount, and how can you get it down some? Certifications, etc..)

Another thing is the area of use. There does not seem to be anything about sailing everywhere so maybe it's useless anyway.

Cruising Area : U.S. Gulf Coastal Waters

SUMMARY OF COVERAGES
Boat and Boating Equipment (Agreed Hull Value) : $50,000.00
Boat and Boating Equipment Deductible : $1,320.00
Storm Deductible : $2,500.00
Boating Liability : $100,000.00
Fuel and Other Spill Liability : $800,000.00
Medical Payments : $1,000.00
Boat Trailer : $.00
Trailer Deductible : $.00
Personal Effects : $.00
Personal Effects Deductible : $.00
Uninsured Boater Protection-Limit each Accident : $100,000.00

TOTAL ANNUAL PREMIUM : $1,947.00
STATE SURCHARGE : $.00
BOAT U.S. MEMBERSHIP (Required if not a Member) : $19.00
TOTAL ANNUAL COST : $1,966.00

The following applies to boats located in the states of TX, LA, MS, AL, FL, GA, NC, SC, or VA: In the event of any loss caused directly or indirectly by a storm named by National Oceanic & Atmospheric Administration(NOAA), the deductible subtracted from each loss, whether partial or total loss, will be $1,000, or 5% of the amount shown for Boat & Boating Equipment whichever shall be the greatest.

SPECIAL CONDITIONS/REQUIREMENTS:
An acceptable condition and value survey is required before coverage is effective. Coverage may change upon review of the report.
The hull identification number is required.
The coverage quoted is the maximum we can offer on your boat.
Further information regarding special conditions and requirements will be mailed with a formal quotation.

REQUIRED: Membership in BoatU.S., the nation's largest association of recreational boaters with over 25 cost-saving member benefits and services (including $50 in towing services) is required with your policy. Our annual dues of $19 are in addition to your quote.

RECOMMENDED: BoatU.S. offers higher option Towing Services which cover you up to the specified level in the event you become stranded on the water. The average cost of a tow is approx. $325 and a soft ungrounding, $525.

For $150 per incident, add $18
For $350 per incident, add $52
For $500 per incident, add $70
For Unlimited Towing, add $120



--------------------------------------------------------------------

If I get 100,000 I'm wondering if it would be a better value or would it double.

Note that it was stated for boats up to 34'. I entered the boat as a CSY 33.

It may be a whole new deal over 34' they will not give instant quotes for vessels over 34'.
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