Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 22-02-2007, 16:23   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Third Coast, TEXAS
Boat: Gulfstar 36 Motorsailer & Albin 25 Trawler
Posts: 168
-------"1-Are you sure nothing else will hit you? From other boats, or for that matter, from the neighbor's roof coming off? "

Well, that is the question. I guess you cant prepare for everything, but that is why I was wondering about the differences between being out in Ingleside Cove or being in the canal. One has roof hazards the other has boat hazards. I think I trust roofs more than stupid boaters that dont know how to anchor their boats.

-------"2-Are you sure about that 15' storm surge? What were the max surges in Katrina, and how sure are you that you wouldn't get a stronger storm with higher surge in your area?"

Katrinas surge came right on to shore. There was no barrier island to protect the shore. The largest huricane storm surge ever measured was 32' on a Cat 5 huricane. Since it will have to cross a 10 foot high barrier island on its way here and then come anopther 3 miles across the bay and inland I dont think it would be over 15 feet. But at the yard it could be more as it is closer to the open Gulf, so that is why I worry about being hauled out and blocked up.

------"You might still want liability insurance, though. In case your's gets torn loose, etc."

Oh yes, I will always have liability insurance, butg its realatively cheap.
__________________

__________________
jimisbell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-02-2007, 16:33   #17
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,055
"I think I trust roofs more than stupid boaters that dont know how to anchor their boats." Interestingly enough...After Andrew a number of building codes were ramped up in Florida. And just a few years ago, there was a big todo in Broward County when someone found out that builders had been ignoring the new codes--and still being signed off on them. The old "pay off the inspectors" game, still being played no doubt. I guess the older the homes near you are, the better chance they've already been real-world tested.

Part of the problem with a 10-15' surge, is whether your mooring lines would let you rise enough, or hold you down in the canal while the water came up over the boat. I guess if you really wanted to prepare for that, you'd need two sets of lines. A longer heavier set, and a shorter lighter set intended to break free to let the boat rise. (Never heard of that being done, but unless you can allow enough slack for the rise, I can't see any other easy way.)
__________________

__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-02-2007, 20:04   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Third Coast, TEXAS
Boat: Gulfstar 36 Motorsailer & Albin 25 Trawler
Posts: 168
My idea is to use 6@ 100 ft lines shortened to 55 feet of slack so that the boat can roam freely from side to side of the canal, coming up short by 5 feet of hitting either bulkhead. Thus it wont be firmily tied to the center but have free range of the canal. I havent done the triginometry to see what kind of surge that would allow. Guess I should......or stay on board and adjust as needed.
__________________
jimisbell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2007, 04:17   #19
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,583
Images: 240
Anyone with safer alternatives, should NOT stay aboard to “adjust lines” (etc) during a hurricane.
It gets very difficult to adjust loaded lines as the winds exceed 30 kt, approaching all but impossible (for most of us) at 42 kt.
A weak Cat.1 hurricane (at 65 kt) creates forces over twice that of a 42 kt gale.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2007, 04:25   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dominican Republic
Boat: Bayfield 40' Silent Running
Posts: 49
Use lots of chaffing gear
__________________
d0ug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2007, 06:07   #21
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Nortport, ME Penobscot Bay
Boat: Monk 36 (formerly Westsail 32)
Posts: 84
Insurance

Hi Jim,

I wrote this information on another thread but I will recommend Progressive Insurance. I'm not sure how they feel about Texas but I have had them for the last 6 years. I had one total loss which they handled promptly. It was on my 1974 Pearson, so they are not afraid of older vessels. I have them currently on my 1980 Westsail.

My navigation limits are the entire east coast from Canada to the Keys and up to 75 miles offshore. I insure for $60K and my premium is $720. with a $250. deductible. I also have $500,000 liability and towing for up to $500.

It's surprising to get such a good deal with a primarily automobile insurance co. Claims handling is first rate.

HERON
__________________
Heron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2007, 08:30   #22
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Third Coast, TEXAS
Boat: Gulfstar 36 Motorsailer & Albin 25 Trawler
Posts: 168
That sounds like a winner.......if they will insure on the Gulf Coast at similar rates or at all. Thanks.

As to the staying aboard. It wont be necessary. I did the math on those 55 foot lines and the surge could be 46 feet without bringing them tight. So I think I will shorten them a bit since I dont need to plan for a surge that high! My house is at 47 feet and that is where I will be staying. If the surge hits 46 feet the house and I will be gone as the wind would have to be beyond anything ever measured in history.
__________________
jimisbell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2007, 10:44   #23
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Third Coast, TEXAS
Boat: Gulfstar 36 Motorsailer & Albin 25 Trawler
Posts: 168
I contacted Progressive and you will not believe this!

They will not insure boats that are over 30 feet long...in Texas. I mentioned that your boat was 32 feet and she said, "Thats in another state".

Now will somneone please tell me why the length of the boat makes any difference depending on the state you are in???

I can understand the difference in states because of geography, but the length of the boat by state is stupid!!!
__________________
jimisbell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2007, 12:12   #24
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,055
Jimi-
All insurance companies work on the same logic. Actuarial tables, and theft. Ergh, profit, right, they call it profit when they're extorting your money.

Odds are that Progressive examined their losses by size category and by state, and in some states (FL and LA?) found that boats 30-36' OAL cost them xx dollars more than they collected, so they stopped writing that coverage in those states. In other localities where there are either different loss experiences or different state regulations (a state could conceivably say "right coverage for everything, or nothing") they're still offering coverage.

State insurance regulations and insurance company "statistics" and decisions are a specialized game. AIG got into auto insurance in the US about 10-15 years ago with a big low rate campaign...and then some years later wound up being prosecuted by the USAG's office because their rates immediately went up. AIG claimed they had made bad estimates, the AG's office claimed they knew better and had intentionally made lowball estimates to steal customers, knowing they could absorb the first term's loss.

Don't get angry...start an insurance company, so you'll have a license to steal! (sigh)
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2007, 05:42   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dominican Republic
Boat: Bayfield 40' Silent Running
Posts: 49
Insurance companies are business they are out for them and not for you. As an individual it is very hard to get a just settlement. I myself have seen new rode chaff through in half hour in a hurricane. Seen boats brake loose and ram other boats. I myself had to reanchor in hurricane Mitch. I will say it again your best insurance is your knowledge and good ground tackle you will find your chaffing gear is more important than the rode.
__________________
d0ug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2007, 08:33   #26
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,594
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimisbell
"Follow the shrimp boats up the Nueces River BEFORE they close the flood gates. I assume they still do that. Last time I was in a hurricane in CC was the big boy in 70, Celia? Anywho, at the time the shrimpers would head up river and tie off across to both banks and their families would come out and park along the highway and they'd have a big hurricane party. It's been awhile so things may have changed, or maybe not. There's suppose to be a good hurricane hole over behind Ingleside. FYI, "

Unless I am mistaken, Celia (cat 5 they now say) was 1976, but since then only Cat 2 huricanes have come close.

The River is too far away for a last minute dash.

That Huricane hole behind Ingleside is where I am now, in a canal. Its Ingleside-On-The-Bay which is where I live.
Wrong on both accounts. Here's Celia link
http://www.scubamom.com/hurricanes/celia.html

And as for the river being too far? I've sat on the bank of the Nueces River and watched them stream up!

Having been spared so far is absolutely the wrong approach to take to being prepared. All it takes is one cat 4-5 direct hit (I've been through two direct hits) to make a believer out of you.

randy
__________________
Randy

Cape Dory 25D Seraph
rtbates is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2007, 08:43   #27
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Third Coast, TEXAS
Boat: Gulfstar 36 Motorsailer & Albin 25 Trawler
Posts: 168
I am not sure what you mean by "both counts" I have no illusions that I was right about the date. BUT the Cat 5 is correct. At the time they said it was a Cat 4 but experts looking at the damage in modern times now say it was a Cat 5 because of the damage pattern and the extent of the damage.

As to the Nueces river. That just isnt an option anymore. first the distance to the river if you are in a hurry (its 3 hours away at the least), but more importantly, the Nueces is the harbor and the harbor is closed to any but commercial traffic from the Harbor bridge on, due to security concerns since 9/11. Not even shrimp boats can go up there anymore.
__________________
jimisbell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2007, 11:16   #28
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,055
Guys, I'm sure "scubamom" is a great source to cite but the National Weather Service tends to be considered a better authority.

Hurricane Celia

They say Celia was a Cat3 storm at landfall. They also report GUSTS recorded at 180mph. But a storm is not ranked by gusts, it is ranked by continuous wind strengths.

Cat5's happen, if folks want to roll their dice and say "Well, if it happens only once in a hundred years and it already happened once in my life..." that's their option. Of course, they may also be poster children for the posters that say "The purpose of your life is to show others what not to do."

Which may be why so many people don't move to hurricane belts, tornado belts, quake zones, and other areas that have only become real popular in the last 50 years.
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2007, 11:35   #29
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chesapeake Region and Maine
Boat: 42' Bob Perry sloop
Posts: 4,038
Images: 4
Two More Ingredients

Based on close observation of hurricanes in the Eastern Caribbean since 1989 Hugo (a genuine CAT5 hurricane which tracked across and devastated St. Croix), I'd offer the following two things to keep in mind:

1. Patterns change. Before Hugo hit St. Croix, it had been over 30 years since they'd had a major hurricane. After Hugo, there was a succession of hurricanes, one after the other, for over a decade. My boat had the "pleasure" of enduring 5 of them between 1991 and 2002 while based in the Virgins.

2. Surge is only partly related to storm strength. It's also very much related to the storm TRACK. A CAT3 storm might in one instance generate a minimal surge in a particular location, and in the next instance a dangerous surge.

A few posts back Gord mentioned what for me is the cardinal lesson to take away from a study of hurricanes: GET OFF YOUR BOAT. Sometimes it ain't the hurricane winds which get you, but the TORNADOS which often accompany them. If you've ever seen the devastation wrought by such "small" tornados spawned by and a part of hurricanes, you'd be an instant believer. NO BOAT and NO PERSON can reasonably be expected to escape injury or death. So, secure your boat as best you can before the storm, then get off and find inland shelter.

JMO,

Bill
__________________
btrayfors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-05-2007, 17:11   #30
Registered User
 
Esconditas's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: On Board
Boat: Bristol 43.3, Esconditas
Posts: 18
Send a message via Skype™ to Esconditas
Jimi two years ago... or was it three... Ingleside on the Bay had a hurricane scare, and most of the boats at Bahia Marina went out into the cove to anchor. After the 35 / 45 MPH blow three of the boats drug anchor. Having spent six years here I think that I would take my boat over to Aransas Pass and get behind the floog gates before they close them and Anchor out at the far end. Finsd a friend and tie up behind their house.

To be sure the cove will be filled with boats with too short roads and too small anchors, and too small diameter roads.
__________________

__________________
Esconditas is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
anchor, anchoring

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Experts forecast another active Atlantic hurricane season CaptainK Atlantic & the Caribbean 1 04-04-2006 13:38
Hurricane Frances next ... GordMay Atlantic & the Caribbean 14 07-09-2004 02:48
Hurricane 'Charley' GordMay The Library 0 26-08-2004 02:16
Hurricane advice links GordMay The Library 2 12-08-2004 08:26
Expect a busy hurricane season GordMay The Library 2 19-05-2004 16:30



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:50.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.