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Old 22-04-2008, 12:53   #1
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Anchoring Advise

OK, let me start by stating that I am not a world cruiser but we do like to anchor out for weekend or overnight stays, almost always in protected areas. We boat mostly on the west coast of Fla and Pine Island Sound area.
My boat is a 25 ' Nimble Nomad trawler that weighs about 4500 lbs.I have a Fortress FX-11 that I have used for years but have never been real satisfied with. Once it sets it great but in Fla sea grass its sometimes a bear to set. I recently purchased a Manson Supreme 15 lb anchor to replace it due to the Mansons resetting ability. As its a small boat,an all chain rode is not feasable. I have a 6' length of chain with a 3/8" rode. When I put the Manson on, should I put a swivel between the anchor and chain? Do I have enough chain? I could put another 6" without a problem.
Tom
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Old 22-04-2008, 14:29   #2
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Tom, The answers you are going to get are, you have enough chain, you don't have enough chain, and you should use a swivel and you should never use a swivel. Now for my opinion. We have seen more than once a boat fly past us at anchor because a swivel failed. IMO there is never a need for a piece of hardware on your anchor rode that can fail and eventually it will at the worst time. I believe you meant 6 feet more chain and not 6 inches. The more chain you use the better for your holding power. Put as much chain on the rode as you can deal with and you will sleep better at night. There are TONS of anchor threads on the board for more information and opinions then you will ever want or need.
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Old 22-04-2008, 14:53   #3
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GOOD ANSWER !!!

How's the MANSON SUPREME working out for ya ?
(just checking for any "negative" reports since I've yet to hear of any!)

I've had nothing but excellant results with my SUPREME....
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Old 22-04-2008, 16:06   #4
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I'll back up what Chuck said too.

As much chain as you can and no swivel. Also, splicing the rope rode to the chain is a nice way to attach them instead of hardware.
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Old 22-04-2008, 16:11   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssullivan View Post
I'll back up what Chuck said too.

As much chain as you can and no swivel. Also, splicing the rope rode to the chain is a nice way to attach them instead of hardware.

We went to the chain to rode splice and really wonder why we did not do it a long time ago.
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Old 22-04-2008, 16:24   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Baier View Post
We went to the chain to rode splice and really wonder why we did not do it a long time ago.
Definitely. I'm a big fan. It slides right through the windlass with ease... Like you didn't even make a transition from chain to rope. Also, I don't think there is a stronger way to hold the two fast.
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Old 22-04-2008, 16:36   #7
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Thanks for all the replies! That was kinda my thoughts on the swivel....another part to fail. I have always used good quality galvanized shackles and always seize the pins. I don't have a windless so the rope to chain splice is not needed.
And HighCotton, I am recovering from double hernia surgery so I have not installed the Manson but I think it will be great. I will let you know.
Thanks
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Old 22-04-2008, 17:05   #8
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May you quickly recover to be as nimble as your Nimble!
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Old 22-04-2008, 17:26   #9
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LOL @ Patrick...thanks Patrick. At 61, I'm not nimble any more but have plans to keep going for quite a while.
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Old 22-04-2008, 17:29   #10
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Best of Luck with that, been there done that..........

NOW I'm recovering from a double-bypass......... but doing very well, thank GOD!
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Old 22-04-2008, 23:28   #11
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What type of Line are you using for your Rode??
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Old 23-04-2008, 04:11   #12
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Alan,
I am using 3/8" 3 strand nylon.
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Old 23-04-2008, 14:02   #13
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OK, the reason why a swivel is used is when the strain comes on to the line, it tries to unravel. With no swivel, the line twists the anchor chain and eventually the anchor. If the anchor is truely buried, this is not usually an issue. But it can be to get the Anchor to set. Imagine if you will, the anchor is lying on the bottom, you are backing down and the strain is coming on the Rode. As the anchor starts to move, the twist tries to roll the anchor onto it's side. Now for say a Danforth, that may not be an issue. But for a plough that needs the tip down on the bottom, this can be an issue to initially set the anchor. The only reason chain is used at all, is to help make the anchor sit right and the tip to be in the correct atitude to start digging. The twist in the line is sometimes enough to over come the benifit of the chain and the anchor can be forced to lie on it's side. That does not mean the anchor will never set. It just slows the anchor from setting and if the bottom is difficult, it can be an issue to making it work at all.
No part of the Rode/anchor is totaly reliable. All parts of the system should be regularly inspected. Having a swivel may add to the complexity, but providing it is part of the regular inspection should not mean a swivel is a no no. If you really don't want a complex system and as close to bullet proof as any system can be, then you need to go all chain.
I wouldn't rule out using a swivel. But good ones are not cheap either.
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Old 23-04-2008, 17:50   #14
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Alan,
Thanks for the great explanation for the use of the swivel. I am thinking that since I will be anchoring in fairly shallow water here in the west coast of Fla with plenty of scope and a good anchor that I can probably dispense with a swivel.
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Old 23-04-2008, 20:07   #15
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Alan is completely incorrect.

The rode is a flexible set of links and cannot magically impose a torque on the anchor. If it could somehow impart a turning moment on the anchor, for instance by way of suspended weight somehow strangely not supported by the seabed, the usual connection of a shackle would allow too much slack for this to be transmitted to the anchor. Chain makes little or no difference to the setting of an anchor, and setting is certainly not its raison d'etre. Certainly, the presence of a swivel in no way compromises the ability of the anchor to set.

Nimble, the answer to the question of the swivel is: if you don't know you need one, you probably don't.
Try the system without, and re-consider if you think you do need one. The two possible reasons are: you do lots of 360s while anchored, so need something to prevent twists and kinks in the rode (unusual in most areas of the world), or your anchor won't come home happily, either because it twists the chain on the way up or you are using rope and the anchor tends to come home upside-down or sideways, in which case the swivel will better allow it to right itself on the roller. It's that simple.

There are a number of related tid-bits and things of interest in this article:
Anchoring In 2007 (Coastguard Member's Handbook)
and the others at the bottom if you are interested.
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