Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-05-2018, 08:15   #46
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Moorea Island, French Polynesia
Boat: Cal-40
Posts: 82
Re: Anchor Swivel Really Needed?

You spend good money and quality chain and anchor, you study the bottom via charts and the surrounding shoreline, you choose the best spot given all the aspects like wind, tide and other vessels near. But..... you worry about a twisted chain so all your efforts have this weak link (the swivel).
My advise is to never place a swivel anyplace in your anchor rode. Just like cheap shackles from China, this swivel might fail and you just know thatís going to happen at night in an unfamiliar anchorage when the wind is blowing and the rain...... well you all know what Iím talking about.
__________________

Siberian Sea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 08:44   #47
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Tampa Bay, FL
Posts: 140
Re: Anchor Swivel Really Needed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Cause View Post
Do not use Anti Seize. Use Locktite thread lock. Available at Walmart or any Automotive supply store. Blue or Red.

Mis-type on my part. Meant locktite.
__________________

WSMFP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 08:54   #48
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Toronto On Canada
Boat: Bristol 45.5
Posts: 680
Re: Anchor Swivel Really Needed?

We have an Ultra Anchor with the Ultra swivel . They are made to work and fit together. This makes retrying the anchor less of a chore and the are beautifully manufactured . In this world you get what you pay for , never go cheap on your boat gear.

https://youtu.be/27OJcRnO3Xg

Regards John
www.coldeh.com
ColdEh Marine is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2018, 07:41   #49
Registered User
 
double u's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Austria
Posts: 1,293
Re: Anchor Swivel Really Needed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders View Post
My Kong swivel is much stronger than my chain. For threads I use blue Loctite.
look closely: at 90* the BL is quite low!
__________________
...not all who wander are lost!
double u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2018, 14:33   #50
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: New Zealand
Boat: Moana 33
Posts: 812
Re: Anchor Swivel Really Needed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by double u View Post
look closely: at 90* the BL is quite low!
If this means "at 90 degrees" then yes it will snap like a dry twig - but see earlier posts: these things require a few chain links between swivel and anchor so the pull is never anything other than 180. (I use half a metre of chain, so the swivel doesn't quite reach the windlass).
NevisDog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2018, 16:13   #51
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 462
Re: Anchor Swivel Really Needed?

I suspect that most people who feel they need to have a swivel to avoid twists actually do not have a proper roller on the bow to align the chain. A proper chain roller should have a groove in it, so the chain links are always aligned with the windlass when they come on the boat. If you have one of those rollers, the twists are kept out in the water, and as soon as the anchor breaks free of the bottom it is free to spin and clear the chain.


If you have a smooth roller, the chain presents to the windlass with twists, and that will drive you bananas.

I don't use a swivel to keep twists of of the chain. But I use a swivel. The Mantus swivel is stronger than a standard shackle. I use it for strength.

I love the pictures of undersized, cheap, broken, swivels--that were improperly installed--presented as "proof" that swivels are bad. You gotta love the internet. You can get whatever answer you want.
billknny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-05-2018, 12:42   #52
Registered User
 
fxykty's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Auckland
Boat: Outremer 55L
Posts: 378
Anchor Swivel Really Needed?

Funny, the instructions for the WASI swivel that came with the boat (that weíve removed, hence this thread) explicitly state that the swivel is to be directly connected to the anchor. Like this.

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1974.jpg
Views:	36
Size:	181.3 KB
ID:	169848

While it articulates about 60 degrees through its joint, it definitely doesnít go past that to handle 90 degree side bends. This is our setup now and you can see a slight bend in the anchor shaft (a Spade S160), I assume caused by the swivel. BTW, itís 13mm G40 chain and a certified 16mm bow shackle.

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0149.jpg
Views:	39
Size:	78.9 KB
ID:	169849

I havenít noticed any difference, other than feeling better not having a potential weak spot. We do have a pair of bow rollers with deep centre grooves.

I guess when anchored for an extended period in shallow water and frequent current and/or wind changes can lead to chain twists jumping out of the grooves in the bow rollers and causing problems with the windlass. But I still donít see how those twists can possibly travel down a chain laying on the bottom and get released by a swivel thatís under tension load and canít spin. Or can it?

Once the anchor is off the bottom it spins its twists out all on its own. The bow rollers groove keeps the chain straight for the windlass.
fxykty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-05-2018, 13:31   #53
Moderator
 
Don C L's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Channel Islands, CA
Boat: 1962 Columbia 29 MK 1 #37
Posts: 5,173
Images: 38
Re: Anchor Swivel Really Needed?

Take a look at the strength of the swivel if you ever consider one. Youíll want the beefiest one you can find. But I was just having a related conversation with Ann, the only time I can think of when a swivel is needed is in a Bahamian mooring, and in that case it prevents two rodes from twisting together.
Don C L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-05-2018, 14:12   #54
Registered User
 
thomm225's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Hampton Roads
Boat: 1974 Bristol 27
Posts: 3,844
Re: Anchor Swivel Really Needed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by billknny View Post
I suspect that most people who feel they need to have a swivel to avoid twists actually do not have a proper roller on the bow to align the chain.
You are forgetting those of us that bought used boats that already had a swivel on the anchor rode.

I have been so lucky that the PO set my boat up with good but very old ground tackle.

Once again on Saturday after a slow and long 20 mile sail North, I anchored just knowing I was in a good spot a bit North of the land with a forecast of 5-10 knots SSW wind.

Well I got everything but that. It was winds to 20 knots plus from all directions as a front was going thru earlier than predicted. I just hoped my old CQR would hold since I sailed into a slot with low water on 3 sides at a depth of 2'. The wind ended up being from the worst direction which was the other side of the bay 20 miles away......east which brought in beam to steep waves

Needless to say I got very little sleep.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC02115.jpg
Views:	30
Size:	429.8 KB
ID:	169851  
thomm225 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-05-2018, 23:00   #55
Moderator
 
noelex 77's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Living on dirt waiting for our new yacht to be built.
Boat: Half built Bestevaer.
Posts: 10,738
Re: Anchor Swivel Really Needed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by billknny View Post
I suspect that most people who feel they need to have a swivel to avoid twists actually do not have a proper roller on the bow to align the chain. A proper chain roller should have a groove in it, so the chain links are always aligned with the windlass when they come on the boat. If you have one of those rollers, the twists are kept out in the water, and as soon as the anchor breaks free of the bottom it is free to spin and clear the chain.
A grooved bow roller will not solve the problem if your boat has spun around in the same direction enough times.

Chain will only tolerate a small number of twists for every unit of length. If you twist it more than this it starts to hockle. You cannot retrieve hockled chain conventionally.

When the twists are distributed over the total length of the rode they are not noticeable but as the chain is retrieved the twists become concentrated in the distance remaining between the bow roller and the anchor. If there are enough twists and no swivel the chain starts to hockle. If this happens when you still have enough chain out for a reasonable scope you have a problem no matter what the bow roller design.

If you can break out the anchor it will spin around underwater (sometimes very violently) and remove the twists, but at 3:1 or even 2:1 you cannot (or should not) be able to break out the anchor even with full engine power (although the torque in the chain does help with the break out by producing a significant twisting force on the anchor. Anchors, especially those models that are not very roll stable, can sometimes be twisted out at scopes where they would normally hold well.

Fortunately, this situation is not very common. The turns can only accumulate when they occur in the same direction. If the problem occurs it is unlikely to be any kind of emergency because the anchor is still holding (if you can break out the anchor the problem is solved). However, it is a pain to try and fix.

The only solution if you want to avoid this problem completely is to fit a swivel.
__________________

noelex 77 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
anchor

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Anchor Swivel irwinsailor Anchoring & Mooring 190 07-06-2015 18:24
Anchor Righting Swivel, brings up and stores the anchor even when backwards Cotemar Anchoring & Mooring 0 07-06-2012 19:04
How to Thread-Lock Anchor Swivel ? duncan_ellison Anchoring & Mooring 75 24-03-2012 16:00
New Windlass Twisting Line / Chain - Change 3-strand or Add Anchor Swivel ? Northeaster Anchoring & Mooring 11 16-06-2010 16:57
To swivel or not to swivel salty_dog_68 Anchoring & Mooring 23 13-10-2008 23:18



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:13.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.