Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 21-09-2014, 23:09   #1
Moderator
 
Don C L's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Channel Islands, CA
Boat: 1962 Columbia 29 MK 1 #37
Posts: 6,043
Images: 40
Anchor line off the bow or from the water line?

Many years ago I sailed with a friend who had a Downeaster. He was concerned about putting so much load on the roller on his bow sprit that he was in the habit of hooking a big nylon line from the chain plate on his water line (for the bowsprit) to the chain rode to take the load down lower. Now it seemed to work ok, though his chain plate wasn't designed for that. But it still seemed to make sense to me that, in general, that is a better place to transfer the load to, if you have a fitting that is designed for it. It reduces the downward force on the bow and gives you a little better angle on the rode. However, aside from him, I haven't seen anyone else anchoring this way. I don't get around much, and I am sure someone must be somewhere... but any thoughts on the pros and cons of such a set up. In my new boat, a Columbia 29, it would be easy to bolt a really sturdy chain plate at the waterline so I started thinking...

Don
__________________

__________________
DL
Pythagoras
1962 Columbia 29 MKI #37
Don C L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-09-2014, 01:43   #2
Moderator
 
noelex 77's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Boat: Bestevaer.
Posts: 11,166
Re: Anchor line off the bow or from the water line?

If you have a suitable fitting it is a good idea. (It does need to be strong).

Lowering the attachment point makes a practical difference to scope. So the swinging circle is less for the same scope, or the holding is better for the same amount of rode. The point is not easy to get to to attach a snubber, but a short length of thin Dyneema, permanently attached, would not have any practical effect on the drag from the bow.
__________________

noelex 77 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-09-2014, 02:45   #3
Eternal Member
 
monte's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Australia
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 3,650
Images: 1
Re: Anchor line off the bow or from the water line?

yes I agree its a good idea although I have no practical experience with it. Another benefit I imagine would be far less hobbyhorsing in any kind of swell. I was anchored next to a steel ketch that had a motion like it was rounding cape horn while at anchor. Looking at the chain coming from the bow tugging as the bow raised and dropped over 2m each time I visualized the pivot point to be midships around the waterline, so I imagine the closer to the waterline/pivot point, the less tendency to hobbyhorse. It was also yawing a lot.
We were in an exposed Atlantic anchorage with 30K wind and 1m waves at the time, but the motion really seemed excessive..
monte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-09-2014, 03:16   #4
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 14,063
Re: Anchor line off the bow or from the water line?

We installed a fitting to do just that, for our snubber line. The only "problem" we had with it, was that it was a bit of a bother dealing with the snubber line, in the water when we heeled, and people telling us we had a line in the water. But it worked fine. Figured it would be great in big winds, but never seriously tested it.

Ann
__________________
Who scorns the calm has forgotten the storm.
JPA Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-09-2014, 03:39   #5
Moderator Emeritus
 
nigel1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Manchester, UK
Boat: Beneteau 473
Posts: 5,450
Re: Anchor line off the bow or from the water line?

Not that I have one, but I believe it is considered good practice to have such a set up.
A friend has a steel ketch with sprit, and has a short nylon line rigged from the chain plate, long enough to secure on deck. To this, he can shackle on either a short or long snubber depending on conditions.
__________________
Nigel
Beneteau 473
Manchester, UK
nigel1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-09-2014, 05:54   #6
Senior Cruiser
 
Wanderlust's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NSW Central Coast
Boat: Lagoon 410
Posts: 509
Re: Anchor line off the bow or from the water line?

My cat has the bridle permanently attached under the forebeam, maybe halfway to the waterline. Where the bridle attaches to the chain is always underwater, so that improves scope ratio as mentioned earlier.

However with that arrangement I can't change the length of the arms if I want to turn into the swell or tide. So if I think that will be likely I use a different (longer) bridle and attach this to deck cleats, which I can then adjust or relocate as I choose.

So I think there is a good argument to have both solutions.
__________________
Steve
Wanderlust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-09-2014, 07:17   #7
Eternal Member
 
monte's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Australia
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 3,650
Images: 1
Re: Anchor line off the bow or from the water line?

I'd try attach a dock line to the bridle where it clips to the chain wanderlust to test the theory first, you can run it to a bow cleat to change the length of port or starboard bridle, but personally I don't think it will have the desired effect of pointing into waves or tide. I think it would just lose stability and swing around a lot, but try it out in practice and see what happens. The only way I have actually swung our cat is to run a 20m line from the chain to a stern cleat and pulled it around so the bridle is on the beam, but this was only in calm water to put the solar panels in full sun
monte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-09-2014, 07:37   #8
Registered User
 
zboss's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: On a boat
Boat: 1987 Cabo Rico 38 #117
Posts: 3,738
Re: Anchor line off the bow or from the water line?

We have an eye on the waterline bobstay fitting which I assume is for this purpose. Since we took this fitting out for inspection and had a new backing plate built (1/2" stainless steel) I know I have about 2 inches of fiberglass at this location. Regardless, I'm paranoid about using it for the anchor because of the stresses.

Its slightly below the waterline so if a hairline fracture (or worse) develops, it is fairly hidden and I just would not want to take the chance. With that said... I am wondering if anyone has experienced a failure of this type.
zboss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-09-2014, 08:09   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: UK and Central America
Boat: Tucker CA41 Steel 40 foot Ketch
Posts: 356
Re: Anchor line off the bow or from the water line?

Lets assume you are in a really bad squall or something and you need to slip the anchor. how would you detach the line attached to the plate at the waterline quickly?

I use a long rope snubber which effectively lowers the angle of the chain and saves the compression loads
Triumphant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-09-2014, 08:42   #10
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 18,235
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
Re: Anchor line off the bow or from the water line?

i use a snubber that is a line knotted on the anchor chain with rolling hitch and comes thru the roller easily. not a problem. i9s affixed as a bridle thru my hawses each side and easily released from bow. i do not have to go to the chain in a dinghy to release or set it, as many others seem have to do.
zeehag is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-09-2014, 09:17   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Manila, California
Boat: Cape George pilothouse 36 and a Cape Dory 25
Posts: 413
Re: Anchor line off the bow or from the water line?

The Pardee's recommended attaching at the bob stay tang, not just to get a better angle of attack, as it were, but also to avoid their all chain rode from banging on the bob stay. I have a Cape George 36 that was owner finished and instead of a massive y-shaped piece of bronze glassed into the bow, mine has a conventional tang that is thru-bolted with 4- 3/8" carriage bolts. When the bolts were having their 40th birthday we were in a storm with towering breaking seas. Then it subsided to 2 days of a strong gale, but we had switched from being hove to to running under triple reefed main and staysl. A few days later, still running in moderate winds we found that the bottom 3 bolts had sheared off and the tang was bent out backwards. Thankfully only one bolt left an empty hole a few inches above the waterline, which explained why the bilge pump was so busy. Anyway, I want to anchor that way, our bob stay is 1" solid bronze and noisy under certain conditions, but I have some fear of adding extra stress to the new bolts and beefier new tang. In my heart I know that those failed bolts were 40 years old and never had benefit of any zincs on them, which the new one does. But still you worry about those kinds of things.
fatherchronica is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-09-2014, 09:45   #12
Registered User
 
jstevens's Avatar

Join Date: May 2006
Location: On board Sarah, currently lying in Jacksonville, FL
Boat: Pearson, 424, 42', Sarah
Posts: 624
Images: 4
Re: Anchor line off the bow or from the water line?

Trying to summarize what the above posters have said about attaching the snubber line to a bow fitting near the waterline rather than to a mooring cleat on deck.

PROs:
1. The feed of the snubber line to the chain will be lower reducing the angle of the chain to the anchor, possibly improving the holding power of the tackle.
2. For a boat with a bowsprit, keeps the snubber line from chafing on the bobstay.

CONs:
1. Slightly more complicated to setup and retrieve.
2. Difficult to release all of the chain in the rare case that you have to get out of an anchorage quickly, especially if the wind is blowing so strong as to make it difficult to retrieve enough of the chain to release the snubber. A snubber on a mooring cleat can be released or cut quickly, without having to retrieve any of the chain.

My take on it (not having a bowsprit) is that PROs are not very compelling, and the 2nd CON could become a very serious problem. A friend believes he has solved that issue by feeding the snubber from the chain through the bow fitting to the deck and securing it to a mooring cleat.

If I had a bowsprit and bobstay I would seriously consider this arrangement.

John
jstevens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-09-2014, 10:09   #13
Moderator
 
noelex 77's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Boat: Bestevaer.
Posts: 11,166
Re: Anchor line off the bow or from the water line?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triumphant View Post
Lets assume you are in a really bad squall or something and you need to slip the anchor. how would you detach the line attached to the plate at the waterline quickly?
My snubber is attached to the chain with a soft shackle.

The chain needs to be retrieved to the soft shackle which is undone. I would leave the snubber attached under the waterline ready for use next time. It has the drawback that the snubber length cannot be adjusted without retrieving the chain, but given the reduced swinging distance I think this is a worthwhile trade off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triumphant View Post
I use a long rope snubber which effectively lowers the angle of the chain and saves the compression loads
A normal snubber rigged from the bow roller reduces the peak loads because it stretches, but the angle to the anchor and the effective scope is not improved. The only exception is in light winds the added loop of chain adds some weight, but the chain near the anchor is still likely to be on the bottom at this stage. The effect is lost in moderate to strong winds.
noelex 77 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-09-2014, 10:14   #14
Registered User
 
Stu Jackson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 7,056
Re: Anchor line off the bow or from the water line?

I understand trying to avoid hitting the bobstay with anchor gear, but if your anchor rollers aren't up to the job, you have much bigger issues.
__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, (Maple Bay Marina) SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
Stu Jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-09-2014, 10:44   #15
Registered User
 
Terra Nova's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Marina del Rey, California
Boat: Mako 248
Posts: 4,023
Re: Anchor line off the bow or from the water line?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
I understand trying to avoid hitting the bobstay with anchor gear, but if your anchor rollers aren't up to the job, you have much bigger issues.
This.

Messing with a waterline-located anchor attach point is just silly, unless your boat's design presents special circumstances, like a bobstay that must be avoided..
__________________

__________________
1st rule of yachting: When a collision is unavoidable, aim for something cheap.
"whatever spare parts you bring, you'll never need"--goboatingnow
"Id rather drown than have computers take over my life."--d design
Terra Nova is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
anchor, water

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Take the load off the bow Kettlewell Anchoring & Mooring 24 07-12-2012 16:12
Bow and Stern or Two Bow Anchors? illiniphoenix Anchoring & Mooring 25 22-08-2012 12:35
Bow vs Anchor (Anchor Won) PhilDuhs Construction, Maintenance & Refit 21 09-09-2011 06:37
Anchor from Bow or Bridgedeck? mikereed100 Multihull Sailboats 12 12-04-2009 09:01



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:09.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.