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Old 15-05-2016, 15:05   #1
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Anchor inventory/plan for TS/Hurricane conditions

As storm season approaches I am contemplating my plan should a big storm approach. Staying in the marina is not an option so my plan is to anchor out in the most protected area possible within kayaking range of a road, likely in 10 - 15' of water with sand bottom (St. Andrews Bay in FL). Of course I will strip down everything outside but I am wondering about my anchor plan and would appreciate comment/feedback.

I have a Delta 35# with 100' chain backed by 250' rode and a Fortress 16 (10#) with 20' chain backed by 200' of rode. I also have several smaller anchors including an 8# Danforth traditional. My plan is use the 12' of chain for 8# Danforth to connect it to the Delta's crown and deploy all the chain plus up to 100' of rode. I would then take the Fortress 16 and set it in an opposite direction with most of the rode deployed. Both rodes would onboard the boat at the bow take a loop around a bow cleat and then be secured at midship cleats.

Lots of questions possible such as should I deploy the Fortress off the stern (instead of bow) or should the Fortress lead the Delta? Boat is basic 35' sloop around 11,500 lbs. Advice from those more experienced than me appreciated.
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Old 15-05-2016, 16:45   #2
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Re: Anchor inventory/plan for TS/Hurricane conditions

Try to talk to a couple of local people see what gear they use and call best.

I know that where the sand is compact and does not have an underlying rock, Danforth style anchors tend to work well. Some say they do not veer too well.

My own extreme anchoring foolosophy is to use a HUGE bower. No daisy chaining. I often deploy a second anchor, in the V towards where I expect the wind will come from next. But I have not handled a hurricane yet, where the wind can turn full circle as we know. This IS a challenge.

CHAFE. I said CHAFE for a reason. Fat hoses over all cables, also the chain ones. For chain will not get chafed thru as much as it may chafe thru your topsides ... ;-)

I use very VERY heavy chain and a lot of it if I expect a hard blow. Chain may help to keep the anchor flat and will not chafe across an odd rock or bottom rubbish.

You may be allowed to deploy a 4 sack cement sinker and anchor to one. It is a problem to retrieve these after the season but some harbour masters allow for that and actually may help you remove yours after the season (at a cost, I guess). I have seen this done in Tonga (soft mud, deep water).

Drive your boat into thick mangroves (if you can). And do look at your neighbours and imagine which one will end up on top of you and anchor accordingly. Avoid anchoring downwind from abandoned derelict heavy boats. For obvious reasons.

Take care,
Let us know how you set her up!

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Old 15-05-2016, 17:31   #3
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Re: Anchor inventory/plan for TS/Hurricane conditions

I am on a 39 foot catamaran, and my storm anchors are a Fortess FX-110 which weighs about 69 pounds and a 70 pound Beugel anchor. One is on 200 feet of high test chain and the other on fifty feet of chain.
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Old 15-05-2016, 22:54   #4
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Re: Anchor inventory/plan for TS/Hurricane conditions

Checking with locals is always the best first option. If it was me I would go up a size in anchor and all chain ( 300 ft ) relieves some potential chafe issues. Use the 35 # for second anchor . Lighter boat you ;ll be bobbin up and down a lot so good snubber will take some stress off the boat itself ( windlass ?). Skip the claw snubber, claw can damage chain in such situations , go with just rope on chain snubber, but have a back up on the ready. Good luck
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Old 16-05-2016, 08:44   #5
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Re: Anchor inventory/plan for TS/Hurricane conditions

CruisersForum.com users have coined the term Cookies & Cream. Referring to the ideal set up of a bow/storm Spade Anchor and a backup/stern Fortress Anchor. You all ready have the Cream (Fortress) , if your preparing for a storm season then you need a cookie.
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Old 16-05-2016, 10:24   #6
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Re: Anchor inventory/plan for TS/Hurricane conditions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade Anchor View Post
CruisersForum.com users have coined the term Cookies & Cream. Referring to the ideal set up of a bow/storm Spade Anchor and a backup/stern Fortress Anchor. You all ready have the Cream (Fortress) , if your preparing for a storm season then you need a cookie.
Yes, but I would up that Fortress to an FX-21 or even an FX-37.
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Old 16-05-2016, 11:41   #7
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Re: Anchor inventory/plan for TS/Hurricane conditions

Most anchor companies will recommend how to figure what you should do if you want a storm anchor. Fortress recommends two sizes above the normal size that is recommended.
Myself, I use a custom surge plate, to attach three different all chain systems attached to the anchors, that are set out in three different directions, to a Mantus, one inch, double line nylon bridle that is covered full length with chafe protection. I use a Bruce, a CQR, and a FX125 Fortress to cover all bottom types.
I have staggered the chain lengths for each anchor to keep them from interfering with another anchor if one were to drag.
I have also upgraded my deck gear, cleats, up two sizes over what came on the front of my boat. I have also upgraded the size and thickness of the below deck backing plates for those cleats.
At this point, after stripping everything that I can to reduce windage, my wife and I go to safest place we can find on land, since there is nothing more that I can do for my boat.
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Old 16-05-2016, 12:14   #8
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Re: Anchor inventory/plan for TS/Hurricane conditions

Where exactly do you plan to anchor?
I would re think St Andrews Bay, although I do not have a specific idea myself, maybe go up the Appalachicola river and spider web in?

I'm also in PC and have a fear that this year will be the year, don't know why I think that, maybe cause this is the last Hurricane season for me before we head out?
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Old 16-05-2016, 12:15   #9
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Re: Anchor inventory/plan for TS/Hurricane conditions

Dear EmeraldCoastSailor,
Please forget the "tandem anchor" idea....looks good at a boat show seminar, but I've NEVER heard of anyone actually getting either anchor set properly!!

If you've got more than one anchor, that's great...use 'em...but use 'em on their own chain/rode!
And, use chafe protection....
I prefer 1.5 firehose....fits loosely enough to allow water/rain inside and allow cooling of the rode fibers!!


And, as for WHERE to anchor / secure....remember the "fetch" is very important!!
Try to get your boat where the fetch is small, but still have swinging room / maneuvering room....

{Actually I prefer one HUGE storm anchor (and some other normal-sized anchors), deployed in the direction of the wind...or if a direct hit is expected, deploy the biggest / best holding anchor in the direction of the maximum expected wind to hit you, and then the others deployed around in a circle (using a hurricane swivel, etc. or another means of keeping the multiple rodes from different directions from tangling)...}

And, here in your application a BIG Fortress is your best bet!!
And, by BIG...I mean BIG!
I use an FX-125....but you can get by with the FX-85...
(I use a 90lb Delta as my primary/daily anchor and a 44lb Bruce as a secondary anchor)

Although, I like your Delta...I'd recommend a 55lb Delta as your daily anchor!

Before you get more direct advice, please take note of my experiences....and learn from them, I have!

My boating / cruising life started as a kid in the mid-1960's....and with some years on-shore mixed in, it continues thru today...

In addition to sailing thru many full gales and a tropical Storm (not on purpose!), I've had the unenviable experiences of riding out three Cat 3 hurricanes on my current boat, here in S. Florida!
Since spring of 2004, my current boat is a Catalina 470....a 47' sloop of 27,000 - 30,000 lbs...

And, in Sept 2004, we had two Cat 3 hurricanes, Hurricane Frances and Hurricane Jeanne, 3 weeks apart, make direct hits....sustained winds upon landfall were 110 - 115mph, and I saw 100 kts sustained on my Raymarine wind meter...(I was only a mile inland, just two miles up the St. Lucie River)
The eyes came right over head...

And, again on Oct 2005, we had Hurricane Wilma, come in from the south and southwest....again 100 kts of sustained wind!!
And, again, the eye came right over..


Some specifics in red...
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmeraldCoastSailor View Post
As storm season approaches I am contemplating my plan should a big storm approach. Staying in the marina is not an option so my plan is to anchor out in the most protected area possible within kayaking range of a road, likely in 10 - 15' of water with sand bottom (St. Andrews Bay in FL). Of course I will strip down everything outside but I am wondering about my anchor plan and would appreciate comment/feedback.
This sounds good...

Only problem is you need to balance WHEN to move your boat with WHERE the storm is going...and WHEN it is expected to be near you!!
(Trust me, with a 95 yr old Mom to take care of, as well as her house and my house, and my boat....this is a BIGGEST issue with me an hurricanes! Anchors, chain, rode, holding, setting anchors....that's all pretty easy for me....it's figuring out WHEN to move / anchor the boat, that's the tough part of my life with hurricanes!)



I have a Delta 35# with 100' chain backed by 250' rode
This might be okay for a daily anchor, but not a storm anchor....
And, what chain and rode???
(For Hurricane Jeanne just 3 weeks after Hurricane Frances, I needed 300' more chain and another anchor after Hurricane Frances....and all could get within a week, was 5/16" BBB chain...and I snapped it right in the middle, 140' / 160'...and I had excellent snubbers!!!
So, when a good anchor digs deep and holds well....you CAN break chain....)
So, again...what chain and rode???

and a Fortress 16 (10#) with 20' chain backed by 200' of rode.
A nice kedge, or maybe even a daily anchor....but not a storm anchor!!
And again, what chain and rode???


I also have several smaller anchors including an 8# Danforth traditional. My plan is use the 12' of chain for 8# Danforth to connect it to the Delta's crown and deploy all the chain plus up to 100' of rode.
Forget the tandem anchor idea!!
In addition to never getting either anchor set correctly, you'll have just as much chance of them fouling/dragging each other, as anything else...

Quite honestly, I think you're over-thinking things...
You need a BIG storm anchor, lots of HT chain, and LOTS of 5/8" to 3/4" nylon rode...


I would then take the Fortress 16 and set it in an opposite direction with most of the rode deployed.
WHERE you set the anchors depends on WHERE the wind will be....
I've heard sailors for years tell where they'd set their anchors, and then go quiet when asked "what if the wind comes from another direction?"

Now, knowing where you WANT to set the anchors and how you'd secure the rodes....that is important...
But, actually WHERE to set 'em depends on where the wind is predicted to be...
Remember, although you may be counting on an anchor to reset itself upon a large windshift, and it may do so....you may not have the room to allow that to happen....
So, that's why I mention that knowing WHEN to move the boat and secure it is a very important aspect of all of this...

Both rodes would onboard the boat at the bow take a loop around a bow cleat and then be secured at midship cleats.
Not familiar with your cleats, but displacing the loads to multiple cleats is a good idea....and don't forget the primary winches as well, as they can take quite a bit of strain...


Lots of questions possible such as should I deploy the Fortress off the stern (instead of bow) or should the Fortress lead the Delta?
You need a storm anchor....and in your application, I'd recommend a BIG Fortress!!
And, yes, deploy it off the bow on its own chain and rode....

Use your Delta and smaller Fortress as your 2nd and 3rd anchors, deployed off the bow OR as needed off the sides (depending on: predicted wind direction, your swinging room, your predicted ability/room for any to reset upon a 180 degree wind shift)

Boat is basic 35' sloop around 11,500 lbs. Advice from those more experienced than me appreciated.

To be honest, this is such a specific question, that it's difficult for an internet discussion to give you anywhere close to all the info you may need....
If you'd like to discuss on the phone, send me a PM with a number and I'll call you, or you can call me...

Oh, and in addition to asking your local fellow sailors, don't forget that BoatUS publishes a Hurricane guide (??) that supposedly gives some decent advice...


I hope this brief answer helps...



BTW, here are some photos of my hurricane swivel/snubber...
Not shown is the 1.5" firehose chafe protection!! (which is important!)
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...zax/1382731195


https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...zax/1903849319


https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...#zax/499058691


https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...#zax/361395152



Fair winds..

John
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Old 16-05-2016, 12:55   #10
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Re: Anchor inventory/plan for TS/Hurricane conditions

I have 275 feet of chain and deploy only 1 anchor.

I tried in a cyclone with 2 anchors at 60 degrees, 2 snubbers, 2 catanary weights and a floating safety line to the main anchor.

That's 7 lines, chains etc over the bow.

When I had it all set up I called my girlfriend on deck and explained it all. She asked: "So, in an emergency which do I pull in first?"

Now I just use 1 anchor, all chain and 1 snubber

Simple.

If your big anchor ain't gunna hold, a myriad of toy anchors won't help.


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Old 18-05-2016, 20:22   #11
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Re: Anchor inventory/plan for TS/Hurricane conditions

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
I have 275 feet of chain and deploy only 1 anchor.

I tried in a cyclone with 2 anchors at 60 degrees, 2 snubbers, 2 catanary weights and a floating safety line to the main anchor.

That's 7 lines, chains etc over the bow.

When I had it all set up I called my girlfriend on deck and explained it all. She asked: "So, in an emergency which do I pull in first?"

Now I just use 1 anchor, all chain and 1 snubber

Simple.

If your big anchor ain't gunna hold, a myriad of toy anchors won't help.


Mark

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Exactly



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Old 18-05-2016, 21:37   #12
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Re: Anchor inventory/plan for TS/Hurricane conditions

Emerald

This is what I do on coast of Alabama. Tuck into local bayou, that has short fetch, maybe 2000 ft max. Bow pointed to shore. If lines part, bow will hit sandy, bushy, muddy shoreline. Four lines from own cleats in bow area to trees. I usually get about one or two boat lengths from shore, but far off so any falling trees can't reach boat.

The bow lines are tied off at the cleats, then run twice around keel-stepped mast then two half hitches.

All but two cleats are on top of gunwale, no chocks, do no chafe. Two that go through chocks are run through 2" ID nylon webbing.


Off the stern, two 45lb mantus anchors . One 35 lb Danforth off stern quarter that will get more wind. One 45 lb cqr off stern just for the hell of it becsuse I have it.


All rodes have their own cleats. Rodes are 5/8" 3 strand nylon- chain combo.

If it's a biggy and the bayou will have lots of boats, I'll line the topsides with 5 or 6 old tires. Two or three per side plus one off the stern. If any break free, maybe the tires will help. Boat is 18,000 lb monohull.

One thing I'm looking at this year is running the lines around/through tires before lines come aboard. Tires will absorb shock. Not sure how to loop through tires.

Most of the steel fish & dive boats drive bow up onto the shore , tie to vegetation and send anchors off the stern.

It's only when all these spots close to shore are all taken that boats will swing at anchor, but we all do our.best to snuggle our bow up to shore and tie off to trees.

Don't know what you have in st Andrews bay, but you might want to bayou some where. Or at least a deep night do you can get some lines ashore.

Maybe tie off in the ICW. Out of the way of the tugs.

Over here we watch the number of turtle nests. If the number is high, lower risk of direct hit. Low number of nests means higher chance of landfall within 200 miles.

Kinda weird, but seems to work. Not sure what this year's nest count is. Hope it's high because I haven't put my rebuilt engine bsck in yet.
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Old 18-05-2016, 22:29   #13
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Re: Anchor inventory/plan for TS/Hurricane conditions

Forgot to mention, on those shore lines. Chain is wrapped around the trees with enough length to clear possible chafe points. Then the line is shackled to the chain.
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Old 19-05-2016, 00:43   #14
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Re: Anchor inventory/plan for TS/Hurricane conditions

I have no experience of this but was wondering about what happens with swinging as wind changes.
I would have thought that fetch and sea conditions are the biggest issue to deal with rather than wind direction? I am reminded of Don Jordans comments about drogue design. He was an aeronautical engineer who designed jets for 1000's of knots and he said that while extreme winds are obviously dangerous, the sea state is the main issue to consider for survival.
With that in mind, and with wind expected from all directions at some stage of the storm, wouldn't it make sense to anchor forwards into the worst expected sea state with the biggest anchor you have ie towards the direction of greatest fetch and expected worst sea state?. Presumably then if the wind changes the veering anchoring system would at least not have to deal with violent seas as well as wind? One might have to use a kedge off the stern to hold the boat in that direction if the early winds try and turn the boat way from the ideal orientation ie keep it towards the greatest fetch?.
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Old 17-07-2016, 15:40   #15
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Re: Anchor inventory/plan for TS/Hurricane conditions

Not that I want to brag but I figured I'd follow-up with what details on what I have done. Since I could not go bigger due to the furling drum anchor roller arrangement, and since new Rocnas don't grow on trees, I am keeping my current #35 Delta primary (which is technically an upgrade according to Delta selection charts for my 34'r). I have 100' of chain on the Delta plus a nice Fortress on spare rode with 20' of chain so I think I am good for most all conditions in which I will be on the boat. For when I am leaving the boat (and likely the area) due to severe storm conditions Marine Maintenance of PCB gave me a great deal on 92' of new 5/16" chain and a used yet beefy 40# plow along. If I anticipate the worst I have two 24' lengths of chain that will be attached to the end of my current 100' via 3/8" and 1/2" shackles; on each end I will have a hefty plow. I am pretty sure I can get at least one of them set well in 10-15' of water; likely both.

To augment my options I cut the remaining chain cut into 8' (for daisy chaining) and 36' to add to the existing spare 20' chain and nylon rode, or I suppose the 100' primary. While I can stow all of it aboard (I have a good bilge spot for the chain over the keel) I will keep the worst case arrangement in storage most of time. I found a used 47# Fortress85 that would have been a great storm anchor but $50 for the used plow seemed better than the $675 I likely would have had to spend on the Fortress85. I went cheap and hope I never need the worse case arrangement but feel like I have a good fighting chance. Chain is my friend.
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