3-Strand Vs Double Braid

[tamicatana]

Originally Posted by Vasco

Double braid cannot be re-spliced.

????

To answer, Vasco is technically incorrect, but in practice, he's right. Used double-braid is spliceable but it's phenomenally difficult effort to do so. I don't know if I was just 'lucky' but it was also my experience that used brait is also ugly to re-splice.

[Vasco]

Originally Posted by tamicatana

????

To answer, Vasco is technically incorrect, but in practice, he's right. Used double-braid is spliceable but it's phenomenally difficult effort to do so. I don't know if I was just 'lucky' but it was also my experience that used brait is also ugly to re-splice.

If you can re-splice double braid after the line has been well used (as in an anchor rode) you're a better person than most.

[tamicatana]

resplice, ha ha... mallet and massage and the splice isn't pretty but I have done it

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by zeehag

with a choice o f double braid or 3 strand, the 3 strand is better, as it will not snap in heavy conditions, as will the double braid--i watched 3 boats breakaway from moorings in coronado due to the double braid snapping. 3 strand will stretch.

Exactly. i wouldn't be using 8-plait if I were on a mooring. It chafes too easily, and then it will break.

But I've seen half a dozen boats in the past two years break free from 3-ply as well -- because it chafed also. That's poor maintenance and *really* bad attitude (all 6 were warned by other sailors who had seen the state of their rode).No rode will protect against neglect.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by tamicatana

????

To answer, Vasco is technically incorrect, but in practice, he's right. Used double-braid is spliceable but it's phenomenally difficult effort to do so. I don't know if I was just 'lucky' but it was also my experience that used brait is also ugly to re-splice.

The fellow I take my splicing to (I've "done it" but want it done by someone who is really good at it) won't splice a line that's been in the water.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by Maine Sail

If you base your evidence on a n=3 without knowing what they used for product, how old it was, what they had for chafe gear, how long the snubbers were etc. etc.. you may go though life choosing based on a flawed data set....

We have a mooring field here with over 1200 boats. This is excellent testing grounds for Yale Cordage to test & continually improve their mooring pendants. Yale double braid pendants survive storms far better than any three strand in this mooring field...

Again it is all about HOW a double braid or three strand is made. There are horribly crappy examples of both out there and when boaters often choose by price/ft well you sometimes get what you pay for...

Our boat was less than 30 yards from this one in the same storm and our Yale double braid pendants sustained no damage, NO DAMAGE, his boat broke free and wound up grounded 4 miles away. These 3 strand pendants were brand new about three weeks before the storm my Yale double braid were two years old and had already been through one other bad Nor' Easter......

Now you really have my interest. The Yale's 6-ply is flexible?

[Cheechako]

3 strand. The reason? braided line snags badly on things and portions pull out of the braid. I just relearned this.... bought a couple new braided docklines after years of using only 3 strand, first use both were damaged by rough wood on the dock.

[RedHerring]

3-strand because (a) I was taught this way, (b) it's way cheaper for the same diameter, and (c) can be easily re-spliced, therefore the same line tends to serve longer.

Several years of my boat being tied "stern to" (aka Mediterranean way) to a dock in a not-so-well protected fishing harbour in East Med, I'm also a huge fan of chafe guards.

[rebel heart]

I'm reluctantly thinking of picking up 8-plait for my sea anchor because I need 400' of 5/8. The reality is I'll probably never use it (or the sea anchor) at all and 400' of three strand takes up a lot more room than 8-plait.

In general I like three strand because it's easier to work with, can be used in a lot of different roles, and chafe happens rather obviously if you can see it.

I've never had to say "Damn, all I've got is this three strand over here." In general you can use three strand for everything on board, especially if you have thick stuff.

[model 10]

Originally Posted by rebel heart

I'm reluctantly thinking of picking up 8-plait for my sea anchor because I need 400' of 5/8. The reality is I'll probably never use it (or the sea anchor) at all and 400' of three strand takes up a lot more room than 8-plait.

In general I like three strand because it's easier to work with, can be used in a lot of different roles, and chafe happens rather obviously if you can see it.

I've never had to say "Damn, all I've got is this three strand over here." In general you can use three strand for everything on board, especially if you have thick stuff.

I delt with the same issue for a drouge and found that new 5/8 nylon double braid made a pretty small package. Once used I supposed it would get more bulky but like you say. it will probably never be used.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by rebel heart

I'm reluctantly thinking of picking up 8-plait for my sea anchor because I need 400' of 5/8. The reality is I'll probably never use it (or the sea anchor) at all and 400' of three strand takes up a lot more room than 8-plait.

In general I like three strand because it's easier to work with, can be used in a lot of different roles, and chafe happens rather obviously if you can see it.

I've never had to say "Damn, all I've got is this three strand over here." In general you can use three strand for everything on board, especially if you have thick stuff.

Eric, I queried the folks who make JSD's commercially (can't think of their name now) re using Dyneema for the line instead of double braid nylon. They responded that not only did they approve of this, but that about half of the ones that they made these days were so constructed.

Slightly more expensive, but a much smaller and more compliant package to store. Sounded good to me, and that is how I will go if I make one.

Cheers,

Jim

[barnakiel]

If doublebraid = braid on braid then it is not a typical application.

I do not like Nylon for rode, we use poly here. Octo.

b.

[RedHerring]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I queried the folks who make JSD's commercially (can't think of their name now) re using Dyneema for the line instead of double braid nylon.

Dyneema is awesome, but the major tradeoff with it is very, VERY low stretch, compared to nylon. Which means an order of magnitude more dynamic loads (and stress fatigue) going to the cleat or whatever it's attached to. No idea how much of a concern is it for a drogue (never needed to use one in anger so far), but I would not use dyneema to tie to a dock, or even an anchor.

Once you see a thick chunk of solid steel snap like a match due to fatigue, that's a healthy dose of paranoia for the rest of your life right there.

[Weyalan]

Originally Posted by RedHerring

Dyneema is awesome, but the major tradeoff with it is very, VERY low stretch, compared to nylon. Which means an order of magnitude more dynamic loads (and stress fatigue) going to the cleat or whatever it's attached to. No idea how much of a concern is it for a drogue (never needed to use one in anger so far), but I would not use dyneema to tie to a dock, or even an anchor.

Once you see a thick chunk of solid steel snap like a match due to fatigue, that's a healthy dose of paranoia for the rest of your life right there.

The lack of stretch disadvantage (in this application) of Dyneema could be overcome by the introduction of an relatively elastic shock absorber at the point of attachment - pretty much like a snubber for an all chain anchor line

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by RedHerring

Dyneema is awesome, but the major tradeoff with it is very, VERY low stretch, compared to nylon. Which means an order of magnitude more dynamic loads (and stress fatigue) going to the cleat or whatever it's attached to. No idea how much of a concern is it for a drogue (never needed to use one in anger so far), but I would not use dyneema to tie to a dock, or even an anchor.

Once you see a thick chunk of solid steel snap like a match due to fatigue, that's a healthy dose of paranoia for the rest of your life right there.

Of course one would not use Dyneema for dock lines... and that is not at all what I was on about. Rather I was responding to Eric's post on using 8 plait for a drogue (of unknown design).

One of the advantages of the series drogue is that it does not impart shock loads to the boat... hence the applicability of Dyneema. Incredibly strong, very chafe resistant and very flexible... just what one deeds for a line that is likely to spend its entire life coiled in a locker taking up space!

Cheers,

Jim