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Old 30-09-2015, 23:50   #46
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Re: 2 Anchors 1 Windlass?

Just, out of curiosity, do you use a snubber? I carry three anchors with an Ideal windlass. Two plows and a large Danforth. I have anchored in storms with one anchor and had no problem with lots of scope and a good snubber system although I know that two bow anchors is an acceptable system. With our tides and currents up here I have always felt a bit leery doing that. I guess we do what we feel comfortable with. It always seemed like more trouble than it was worth. I feel safe with a good anchor of the proper weight and type and all chain.
If I was going to deploy two anchors I would secure one, along with a good snubber, and then deploy the second one separately.
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Old 01-10-2015, 03:08   #47
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Re: 2 Anchors 1 Windlass?

you don't need a second windless any more than you need a second line locker. when you need the emergency anchor just deploy it and place the rode on your windless in place of your original rode. assuming you tied off to your samson post or cleats pulling anchors one at a time is easy. just don't use different line or chain sizes for your multiple anchors.
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Old 01-10-2015, 07:57   #48
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Re: 2 Anchors 1 Windlass?

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Originally Posted by Jman View Post
Secrabtree,

He said he has some disability issues, which warrant the windlass, regardless of the boat size. Why he wants two anchors he never really explained (other than specialized anchors for different bottoms). He got fed about 10-12 posts ago and unsubscribe from his own post. What kind of advice he was looking for is unclear. His profile says "Go small, go simple, go now" so why he got so upset when everyone said that two bow anchors is not in accordance with that, I can't explain.

Maybe he already has two gorgeous stainless anchors and bow rollers, so any suggestion of discarding some of the bling upset him?


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Old 01-10-2015, 08:55   #49
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Re: 2 Anchors 1 Windlass?

I think the advice needed probably came along way back at post #6 on ways to use the single windlass.

As a woman, with our first boat (a 5 ton Rawson 30) I was really worried about being able to bring in the anchor w/o power windlass. It had a beautiful little ABI manual windlass on it but I really thought I might not be able to bring in the anchor. Figured I'd be stuck relying on my husband if a lot of rode out, etc. So wrong -- on a little boat like that, it is no problem to raise the anchor by hand --and in our case with 75 ft of chain rode before it went to fiber, it was pretty much "all chain" coming up. I'd use the manual windlass to break out the anchor sometimes but that's it. Until you're using your boat or one similar to it, you don't know what you really need to have. It's all conjecture and other people's opinions up to that point.

On using 2 anchors--if everyone else is bow and stern moored, then that's what one will be doing to limit swing, yes. A little boat with less than 30' length isn't going to have a huge swing even when on a single hook though. Depending on the conditions, having two anchors off the bow can be less secure than a single anchor, IMO.

Somewhere in there the OP said he has some significant disability and didn't have a money problem so my biggest suggestion for him would be to make sure and have an engine so he doesn't have to play with the fancy footwork to singlehand off the anchor under sail since in trying conditions that's going to be a lot more difficult than just starting up the engine.

In SoCal, I've seen or heard on the radio too many of the tight budget liveaboards with tiny boats w/o engine end up anchored near a lee shore and no way off when winds rise. It doesn't end well.

Go small, go simple, go now is all fine and dandy but you'll note Lin and Larry were a TEAM and that's a lot different than solo sailing when things get dicey.

The boat we sail now is 30 ton, 54' on deck 69' sparred length, roller more than 6ft off the water (6 ft in front of the stem on the bowsprit) and takes a lot of swing room in the anchorages. At 3lb/ft on the chain and 100+lb anchors, we have an electric windlass that can also be operated manually.

For simplicity sake (and not to be rude and hog too much space in an anchorage), we will anchor in deep water on a single hook rather than anchor close in among many smaller boats who may-or-may not be swinging on a single hook. We're sometimes VERY exposed to wind and waves in these situations but it's our own version of "simple" because you can haul up your single rode and get underway (even under sail) more quickly when you've got enough room to do so. Smaller boats tend not to think about anchoring "out" in deeper water as a simple solution to tight anchorages.

On our larger boat, the windlass is a horizontal Ideal Windlass gypsy one side capstan the other and both independent of each other and we do sometimes deploy two anchors off the bow using the techniques already described by others. As an aside, the rolling hitch is my friend in terms of unloading a winch or windlass to use it for another purpose.

I'm surprised nobody here started talking about how having two anchors independently off the bow will often result in rode twisted around each other. Depending on tide and wind shifts one can go round and round. Then, quickly getting the second rode unwound from the primary can sometimes be a bit of work.

I do figure once the OP gets out there and does a bit of sailing with his boat, he'll have a system figured out that works for him, his own ideas about simplicity and his physical condition.

Fair winds.
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Old 01-10-2015, 09:04   #50
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Re: 2 Anchors 1 Windlass?

Late to the party I guess.......
A) deploying two bow anchors is rare for most. (and problematic!)
B) if you have 2 deployed, you can pull in one first then the other using your standard windlass.
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Old 01-10-2015, 09:30   #51
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Re: 2 Anchors 1 Windlass?

Managing two anchors is far from easy. Even the pros with a full crew to sort out the problems get them in an nightmare of tangle once in a while.

This was in 40 knots. I was sitting snugly to my single anchor while this proffesional crew spent several hours, just off our stern, trying, unsuccessfully, to sort this mess out.


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Old 01-10-2015, 09:43   #52
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Re: 2 Anchors 1 Windlass?

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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
Managing two anchors is far from easy. Even the pros with a full crew to sort out the problems get them in an nightmare of tangle once in a while.

This was in 40 knots. I was sitting snugly to my single anchor while this proffesional crew spent several hours, just off our stern, trying, unsuccessfully, to sort this mess out.


He, he, yep, years ago I (and 28 other guys) picked up a mess of buoy anchors, each had a 10 000 lb stone. When we set the lower anchor onto the deck the tension on the upper anchor released and the 10 000 pound stone free fell about 10' onto the deck. Danger danger.

Some times bigger ships need two bow anchors, particularly if they are backing down into a Mediterranean mooring. It doesn't happen all the time, but it happens.

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Old 01-10-2015, 10:03   #53
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Re: 2 Anchors 1 Windlass?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schooner Chandlery View Post
I think the advice needed probably came along way back at post #6 on ways to use the single windlass.

As a woman, with our first boat (a 5 ton Rawson 30) I was really worried about being able to bring in the anchor w/o power windlass. It had a beautiful little ABI manual windlass on it but I really thought I might not be able to bring in the anchor. Figured I'd be stuck relying on my husband if a lot of rode out, etc. So wrong -- on a little boat like that, it is no problem to raise the anchor by hand --and in our case with 75 ft of chain rode before it went to fiber, it was pretty much "all chain" coming up. I'd use the manual windlass to break out the anchor sometimes but that's it. Until you're using your boat or one similar to it, you don't know what you really need to have. It's all conjecture and other people's opinions up to that point.

On using 2 anchors--if everyone else is bow and stern moored, then that's what one will be doing to limit swing, yes. A little boat with less than 30' length isn't going to have a huge swing even when on a single hook though. Depending on the conditions, having two anchors off the bow can be less secure than a single anchor, IMO.

Somewhere in there the OP said he has some significant disability and didn't have a money problem so my biggest suggestion for him would be to make sure and have an engine so he doesn't have to play with the fancy footwork to singlehand off the anchor under sail since in trying conditions that's going to be a lot more difficult than just starting up the engine.

In SoCal, I've seen or heard on the radio too many of the tight budget liveaboards with tiny boats w/o engine end up anchored near a lee shore and no way off when winds rise. It doesn't end well.

Go small, go simple, go now is all fine and dandy but you'll note Lin and Larry were a TEAM and that's a lot different than solo sailing when things get dicey.

The boat we sail now is 30 ton, 54' on deck 69' sparred length, roller more than 6ft off the water (6 ft in front of the stem on the bowsprit) and takes a lot of swing room in the anchorages. At 3lb/ft on the chain and 100+lb anchors, we have an electric windlass that can also be operated manually.

For simplicity sake (and not to be rude and hog too much space in an anchorage), we will anchor in deep water on a single hook rather than anchor close in among many smaller boats who may-or-may not be swinging on a single hook. We're sometimes VERY exposed to wind and waves in these situations but it's our own version of "simple" because you can haul up your single rode and get underway (even under sail) more quickly when you've got enough room to do so. Smaller boats tend not to think about anchoring "out" in deeper water as a simple solution to tight anchorages.

On our larger boat, the windlass is a horizontal Ideal Windlass gypsy one side capstan the other and both independent of each other and we do sometimes deploy two anchors off the bow using the techniques already described by others. As an aside, the rolling hitch is my friend in terms of unloading a winch or windlass to use it for another purpose.

I'm surprised nobody here started talking about how having two anchors independently off the bow will often result in rode twisted around each other. Depending on tide and wind shifts one can go round and round. Then, quickly getting the second rode unwound from the primary can sometimes be a bit of work.

I do figure once the OP gets out there and does a bit of sailing with his boat, he'll have a system figured out that works for him, his own ideas about simplicity and his physical condition.

Fair winds.
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Old 01-10-2015, 14:08   #54
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Re: 2 Anchors 1 Windlass?

On using 2 anchors--if everyone else is bow and stern moored, then that's what one will be doing to limit swing, yes. A little boat with less than 30' length isn't going to have a huge swing even when on a single hook though. Depending on the conditions, having two anchors off the bow can be less secure.

I'm surprised nobody here started talking about how having two anchors independently off the bow will often result in rode twisted around each other. Depending on tide and wind shifts one can go round and round. Then, quickly getting the second rode unwound from the primary can sometimes be a bit of work.

I do figure once the OP gets out there and does a bit of sailing with his boat, he'll have a system figured out that works for him, his own ideas about simplicity and his physical condition.

Fair winds.[/QUOTE]

Good comments. We are on the same page here. I did suggest earlier that with wind and tide changing 2 anchors can easily tangle. I believe the OP is trying to solve a problem that might not exist in the real world.

His little boat similar in size to mine will be weighed down in front with a big winch and multiple anchors. Mr Bugatti was reported as saying when his car brakes were criticised. "I make my cars to go; not to stop". OP is thinking of stopping but not going.

With boats (or anything) we can overdo one aspect of design to the detriment of the whole package.

I often sail off the pick in suitable conditions in my 31' by first retrieving most of the anchor warp / chain leaving only enough out to stay in place. Then I hoist the main and can quickly retrieve the remainder of the chain and anchor. Then I will often gybe to get the boat moving off the wind even heading for shore if necessary getting speed on before heading for the open and rolling out the jib.
When sailing single handed I find it easier to raise the main while still at anchor.
Trying to sail into the wind directly off the anchor as most of us know can send us backwards.

As you suggest anchoring outside other boats can be a good idea and having a good motor is always a good idea
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Old 01-10-2015, 14:45   #55
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Re: 2 Anchors 1 Windlass?

FamilyMan 7 Jman - Sorry. I missed the part about the disability.
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Old 01-10-2015, 16:10   #56
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Re: 2 Anchors 1 Windlass?

"I often sail off the pick in suitable conditions in my 31' by first retrieving most of the anchor warp / chain leaving only enough out to stay in place. Then I hoist the main and can quickly retrieve the remainder of the chain and anchor. Then I will often gybe to get the boat moving off the wind even heading for shore if necessary getting speed on before heading for the open and rolling out the jib.
When sailing single handed I find it easier to raise the main while still at anchor.
Trying to sail into the wind directly off the anchor as most of us know can send us backwards."

Ditto! Haul up short. Then set the helm half over and get the main up. Weigh the anchor, and IMMEDIATELY get sternway on 'er, if necessary by leaning on the boom to back the main. As the wind comes on the beam, let the boom come over and adjust the helm, and trimming as you go and continuing your turn, ease sheet and trim to get proper steerage way. From thereon it's a piecacake PROVIDED you have anticipated the need for room to do this when you first put the hook down. The key to success is to get steerageway chop-chop. Best to be on starboard tack as you gather way :-)

Sometimes hardening up won't get you out of your position without losing your luff and you may not have enuff speed to tack. But any fin-keeler I've ever sailed will wear in two lengths at low speed, and you allow for the possibility of having to do that when you select your anchoring position.

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