Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 20-03-2017, 15:54   #1
Registered User
 
johnyhask's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 39
What nav

Looks like I've found the boat of my dreams. A lovely Oceanis 411 clipper. Absolutely show room condition and only 50miles away. Already had an out of water survey and everything is fine. The only thing is there are no electronics on n it. So need complete suite. Wind direction, depth, chart plotter everything.
Would love people's thoughts on what to fit. I.e. Which chartplotter? would want full AIS radar connectivity the full works. Would like all the ancillaries on the one screen.
Would love to hear your thoughts based on
1/ unlimited budget
2/ reasonably priced.
I need to put a shopping list together to base my final offer on the boat.

I'll be mainly coastal cruising but want it to be future proof for going further afield later on.
Thanks folks
__________________

__________________
johnyhask is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-03-2017, 10:11   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 11
Re: What nav

JohnnyHask - first, congratulations! sounds like a beauty....

I am lurking here in hopes that more, better informed folks also weigh in - I have similar questions.
__________________

__________________
dgoanne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-03-2017, 10:27   #3
Registered User
 
svHannabel's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Great Lakes
Boat: Catalina 34
Posts: 252
Re: What nav

The 86 series Garmin MFDs look really nice and function smooth from what I've seen at the boat shows.


Also, lots of good marine electronics info/reviews over at Panbo: The Marine Electronics Hub.
__________________
SailFarLiveFree.com
svHannabel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-03-2017, 10:46   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Marina del Rey
Boat: Hunter 31
Posts: 189
Re: What nav

My starting point will be the autopilot as the center of the system. I will get a below deck Raymarine or Simrad unit, either mechanical or hydraulic. Next I will add the wind instrument and the VHF/AIS units then stop. Sail the boat for a few months and then decide where and how you want to have the chartplotter displays. You want a single vendor solution for better integration. For example, with a single vendor solution you can point to a boat on the chartplotter and initiate a DSC call directly from the chartplotter to the VHF radio. Mixing and matching vendors typically breaks down such a process.
__________________
Pizzazz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-03-2017, 11:20   #5
Registered User
 
johnyhask's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 39
Re: What nav

Thanks for your input. I was totally bamboozled leaving the shop. I though I was up on my tech but been out of the game too long. I was thinking - pay approx £500 for chart plotter, £150 or so for each add on ancillary, depth, wind etc. Was hoping to not need auto pilot yet but seems it is the way to go. That in itself I was told would be about
£4K. I like the idea of the more expensive kit, plotting and marking waypoints below deck on a wifi connected IPad rather than a full on doubling up. I'm using navionics on iPad and love it. So something similar would be great. But all in all looks like I'm going to be spending up to £10k which I suppose is ok as it does reflect in the price of the boat. Minor glitch is this wasn't going to be my final boat. I've gone for the 411 as it's my first boat. Ideally I'd like to have gone up to the beneteau 461 but was worried those extra few feet might be pushing my luck as I want to be independent and take the boat out on my own a lot of the time. How much 5ft would make a difference to comfort/handleability and performance later for longer distances? But that's another topic in itself. Exciting times but snowed under with it all lol.
Early retirement and living life tho. So not complaining
__________________
johnyhask is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-03-2017, 13:00   #6
Registered User
 
johnyhask's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 39
Re: What nav

12" display ray marine axiom with 3D real vision. Wow. How do these designers make tech so sexy?
If I was to buy and install the above. Is it as easy as unplugging and taking to your new boat. Leaving a more budget chartplotter in its place?
__________________
johnyhask is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-03-2017, 13:32   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Marina del Rey
Boat: Hunter 31
Posts: 189
Re: What nav

The chartplotter, radar and the display gauges are fairly easy to move from one boat to another. The difficulty is to move the radar mount, cable, rudder sensor, windex, depth tranduscers - these typically stay with the boat as the effort in removing and reinstalling them exceeds the value of the parts.

The 12" Axiom looks great in the pictures but note that such large displays are typically geared towards power boats. You will have difficulty positioning the 12" display at the helm of your boat unless you move the engine panel and then it becomes quite a project.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	5942856_20160919085958247_1_XLARGE.jpg
Views:	38
Size:	27.9 KB
ID:	143650  
__________________
Pizzazz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-03-2017, 13:46   #8
Registered User
 
johnyhask's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 39
Re: What nav

Thanks for taking the time to reply. It would be a bit of a bummer to mount. But would it do away with all the single instruments? I like the idea of keeping everything neat in one display. I know it's sort of putting all your eggs in one basket but modern tech is so reliable am I right in saying that wouldn't be an issue? I'm not wealthy by any means, just a poor retired firefighter lol. But I don't mind spending the money if it's right and suits my needs. I had a budget of £65k and the boat is coming in at under £55 so do have done leeway for the right gear. I don't have to spend money on rigging or the like for a few years and might have a different boat by then.
__________________
johnyhask is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-03-2017, 14:22   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Ventura CA.
Boat: None...yet
Posts: 102
Re: What nav

A first class installation of Nav, radar, instruments, and below deck auto pilot on a boat of that size at 10k is a screaming deal, and unlikely. Maybe possible if you don't count labor of installation.

Ipad with navionics works and you like it, why fix it if it aint broke?

My suggestion:

Limited budget: Sail with ipad extensively, learn as much as possible about the options, buy used equipment coming off a highliner doing a massive upgrade in a local yard at 10% of original cost and install yourself.

Unlimited budget: Sail with ipad extensively, learn as much as possible about the options, buy used equipment coming off a highliner doing a massive upgrade in a local yard at 10% of original cost and install yourself.

Nothing says this used equipment can't be powerful, robust, and visually impressive.

Temper my post with the knowledge I am thrifty, and Captain Fatty Goodlander is one of my heros.
__________________
nematon785 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-03-2017, 15:45   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 26
Re: What nav

I am currently starting over completely on a boat i have owned for 33 years. Not a single piece will be saved and a modest budget is very important. I have done quite a bit of research and have decided to base my system around a B&G Zeus3 , 7" MFD. I don't care for extra large screens, I currently have another boat with a 7" Lowrance Gen 3 which is very similar and like that size best. The B&G also has sailing specific software (Sailsteer) which i am very excited about.With the Zeus3 as your core any number of N2K sensors can be added without the need for any more displays. Depth-speed-temp can be added with one transducer, masthead wind sensor,electronic compass,ais, plug and play broadband radar, the Zeus3 has autopilot programing built in and also built in Wifi. I personally like C-map better than Navionics, but with 2 card slots you can have both installed and displayed on a split screen. I have had lots of Raymarine instrument experience and believe it is barely commercially acceptable. Not fond of Garmin. Believe B&G (Navico) is a step above.
__________________
NakedCity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2017, 10:25   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Marina del Rey
Boat: Hunter 31
Posts: 189
Re: What nav

You have a great boat and a good place to mount your chartplotter. Just take the time to decide how you actually use the boat and what navigational options you need. Here is what you need at the helm: engine control panel, autopilot control, wind display and a chartplotter. Speed, depth, etc. you can display on the plotter or even on the autopilot control. Some people like to have speed and wind displayed forward, above the hatch or at the mast as it is easier to monitor speed/wind while trimming the sails. Typically you do not need a large plotter display on a sailboat (it consumes too much power and provides little value. Power boaters like big displays for displaying sonar while fishing. Another consideration is how often you steer vs. run on autopilot. If running on autopilot you spend most time in the cockpit, shielded by the dogger and then you either need to rotate the plotter display forward or use an iPad or a second monitor to see where you are going.

In terms of cost I would budget $1.5K each for the chartplotter, radar and autopilot. Less if you buy in a bundle and significantly less if you buy used. Installation is straight forward, the biggest difficulty is running the cables to the helm and in the mast for the radar. I would advise you to do this yourself but if you can't be bothered you will need to pay someone. Go in stages, as I said before. Autopilot is essential everything else could be gradual as your preferences develop.

It could be helpful if I shared my upgrade process with you. I got a cheap Garmin 44DV for $199 at the helm interfaced with the autopilot and the VHF/AIS radio and the Windex. This gave me auto mode, wind tracking and waypoint tracking modes, sonar as a backup to my depth (transom transducer mounted in hull, easy install). After a few months I mounted the Garmin in place of the compass so that I could rotate it around and see it from both behind the wheel and in front of the wheel. This was the biggest improvement I made. I should have stopped there as it met all my needs perfectly. Later I got the radar, gyro for MARPA, weather, rudder sensor, Raytech weather routing on a wireless tablet, video cameras, etc. None of the later upgrades are essential or needed but I like messing around with the boat. The moral of the story is fix the basics first, pay attention to usability, test it with some cheap or second hand equipment and then drop the $10K that is burning your pocket.
__________________
Pizzazz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-03-2017, 06:11   #12
Registered User
 
johnyhask's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 39
Re: What nav

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizzazz View Post
You have a great boat and a good place to mount your chartplotter. Just take the time to decide how you actually use the boat and what navigational options you need. Here is what you need at the helm: engine control panel, autopilot control, wind display and a chartplotter. Speed, depth, etc. you can display on the plotter or even on the autopilot control. Some people like to have speed and wind displayed forward, above the hatch or at the mast as it is easier to monitor speed/wind while trimming the sails. Typically you do not need a large plotter display on a sailboat (it consumes too much power and provides little value. Power boaters like big displays for displaying sonar while fishing. Another consideration is how often you steer vs. run on autopilot. If running on autopilot you spend most time in the cockpit, shielded by the dogger and then you either need to rotate the plotter display forward or use an iPad or a second monitor to see where you are going.

In terms of cost I would budget $1.5K each for the chartplotter, radar and autopilot. Less if you buy in a bundle and significantly less if you buy used. Installation is straight forward, the biggest difficulty is running the cables to the helm and in the mast for the radar. I would advise you to do this yourself but if you can't be bothered you will need to pay someone. Go in stages, as I said before. Autopilot is essential everything else could be gradual as your preferences develop.

It could be helpful if I shared my upgrade process with you. I got a cheap Garmin 44DV for $199 at the helm interfaced with the autopilot and the VHF/AIS radio and the Windex. This gave me auto mode, wind tracking and waypoint tracking modes, sonar as a backup to my depth (transom transducer mounted in hull, easy install). After a few months I mounted the Garmin in place of the compass so that I could rotate it around and see it from both behind the wheel and in front of the wheel. This was the biggest improvement I made. I should have stopped there as it met all my needs perfectly. Later I got the radar, gyro for MARPA, weather, rudder sensor, Raytech weather routing on a wireless tablet, video cameras, etc. None of the later upgrades are essential or needed but I like messing around with the boat. The moral of the story is fix the basics first, pay attention to usability, test it with some cheap or second hand equipment and then drop the $10K that is burning your pocket.


Sounds like your all sorted that's fab.
I do like the idea of using iPad as a repeater I'm quite savvy with mine and use it for everything. Before I finalise my offer on the boat there's another Oceanis 411 for sale about 4 hours drive from me. Much bigger inventory of kit and ancillary equipment. Also full electronics suite as listed below

B and G Network Quad Log/ speed, depth
B and G Network wind speed and direction
B & G Network Auto pilot
B and G 6” colour GPS/Plotter
Radar
Radar detector
Firdell Blipper radar reflector
VHF with hawk antenna and extra cockpit speaker
Compass
Simrad CR 34 (2004), all navigation data is connected into the Simrad chart plotter

Been googling the hell out of all this. Some of it seems a little older but at least I could then upgrade slowly at my leisure. Or I should get the basic boat and spend the money and get it right for me.
Hate these big decisions lol.
I'm viewing this boat next week if it rocks me like the other boat did I think I'll go for this one with all the electronics.
The only thing I couldn't find out much about is the autopilot listed above. Anyone had experience with it.
Loving the advice and views.
Thanks guys
__________________
johnyhask is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-03-2017, 06:13   #13
Registered User
 
johnyhask's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 39
Re: What nav

Here's the boat. Will be living aboard in a great marina in Cardiff.
http://www.networkyachtbrokers.co.uk...r-171347.html/
__________________

__________________
johnyhask is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
LED Nav Lights get 'Approval' GordMay Product or Service Reviews & Evaluations 30 03-09-2009 19:57
What nav. program? Shark Navigation 14 07-03-2007 08:21
Is it possible to "test drive" nav software? cjenkins Marine Electronics 0 31-05-2006 07:05
nav parts for older Catalina 27 tweaker Forum Tech Support & Site Help 3 28-05-2006 11:01
Excellent on-line resources (Piloting & Nav info') GordMay The Library 0 08-02-2005 03:00


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 15:47.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.