The End of Hypalon ?

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Freddyboy

Hello, anyone know where can I get the plugs for the old Avon A4 type 'volcano' valves?

Avon plug black A-4 valve pair $50.50
➥ Avon Inflatable Boats | Avon plug black A-4 valve pair | V00026 from the ShipStore.com ™ on-line catalog.

Plug for older Avons including S100. This is the cap and deflator prong only, not the entire valve. Not a repair kit for the valve interior.
If valve is not working, you need to replace valve with the newer C7 Valve, cap and doubler fabric, which will involve cutting boat and gluing fabric.

For diagrams of Avon Valve types see:
➥ Westport Marina, Avon Inflatable BoatS Valve types, parts, service

[Uncle Buck]

Sorry for straying bit from the topic, but can I patch my Avon (Hypalon) using contact cement? Any suggestions for the patch material itself?

West Marine sells a repair kit with patches/glue but it's close to $70 and there's very little actual fabric included. Thanks in advance for your advice!

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by evanOR

Sorry for straying bit from the topic, but can I patch my Avon (Hypalon) using contact cement? Any suggestions for the patch material itself?

I have used pieces of waterproof fabric, quite thin, like the material thats use on high quality inflatable beds/ beach toys. Its not the fabric that is the problem for me its the glues I am using just wont adhere to the zodiac (not hypolon, not pvc, but their own stuff). Mine is a difficult problem as the whole tube was blown when it was pumped up too much then left on the beach and the sun heated the air inside...

The waterproof fabric is cheap, flexible and seems fine.

[td1]

In the world of hypalon whitewater rafts we use clifton hypalon adhesive or shore adhesive for repairs- both are applied like a contact cement. You can get them from Northwest River Supply (nrsweb.com, look under the repair section), or any number of other river supply shops and probably a number of marine stores as well. The key to getting a good patch is to rough up the area to be patched and the patch with a bit of sandpaper, clean everything with toluene, apply the adhesive to the patch and the area to be patched, let it dry until it's slightly tacky, then apply the patch to the boat with as much pressure as possible- there are numerous small rollers used to generate this type of pressure (pros and manufacturers use hydraulic presses), but a beer or wine bottle, pen, or just about anything else can be used in a pinch. My new boat is made of "pennel orca material", which is hypalon not made by Dupont and not subject to being taken out of production any time soon.

[wadda]

Originally Posted by evanOR

Sorry for straying bit from the topic, but can I patch my Avon (Hypalon) using contact cement? Any suggestions for the patch material itself? <snip>

Scrounge the graveyard for a old inflatable. Hack it up and go to town.

A few years ago a guy asked me where to find some patching material.

I told him there were some old dinghies full of holes behind some building near the dock. I don't know whose they are, but they'd been back there for months full of rain water, mud, and such.

He goes and hacks off a piece. Word spread and other people in the anchorage sliced this one dinghy up until it was just basically the seams left.

...about a month later I was chatting with another fella who told me he was getting around to repair his dinghy but he left it behind a building and it was cut to pieces and there was nothing left.

Contact cement will work, but it's not a durable fix. Abraid it, clean it and it will last until the next time.

[Bash]

Originally Posted by evanOR

Sorry for straying bit from the topic, but can I patch my Avon (Hypalon) using contact cement? Any suggestions for the patch material itself?

I've used Barge cement with great success.

[Uncle Buck]

Thanks to all for the advice! Today I bought another used Avon in really nice condition so I've got two of them. I'll keep the original alive for some time, but will have plenty of patch material for the newer one when the first one gives up the ghost.......

[Stillraining]

Originally Posted by wadda

Scrounge the graveyard for a old inflatable. Hack it up and go to town.

A few years ago a guy asked me where to find some patching material.

I told him there were some old dinghies full of holes behind some building near the dock. I don't know whose they are, but they'd been back there for months full of rain water, mud, and such.

He goes and hacks off a piece. Word spread and other people in the anchorage sliced this one dinghy up until it was just basically the seams left.

...about a month later I was chatting with another fella who told me he was getting around to repair his dinghy but he left it behind a building and it was cut to pieces and there was nothing left.

Contact cement will work, but it's not a durable fix. Abraid it, clean it and it will last until the next time.

No I will not tell you where my dingy is at..Sorry...

FWIW contact cement IS how you glue Hyplon....I have a 20 year old Cater Raft from NRS...I put new bottoms on the tubes befor our last Alaska Float trip...It needs new nose cones now and that takes a special machine...almost cheaper to by new.

[hellosailor]

Considering all the complaints about Hypalon delaminating in dry suits and dinks alike...this could actually be a very good thing. There must be something out there, something newer and better, that doesn't automatically delaminate in under ten years.

(Yeah, I know, after 100+ years of horseless carriages, they still haven't made one as smart as the horse-drawn one, either.)

[Minggat]

Originally Posted by Stillraining

FWIW contact cement IS how you glue Hyplon....

Nice to hear that people are finding ways that work for them to keep their inflatbles... inflated. I've heard some people swear by 5200 as well. But proper Hypalon glue is an expensive 2 part, short shelf life, product. And the "delaminating" is quite likely to be that glue itself breaking down, so seams let go. Not the Hypalon material delaminating. Check out the seams in your boat to see if the glue isn't getting grainy. See any seam tape letting go?

Hypalon itself is great stuff. Keeping it glued together is the vulnerable part.

When you see ads for used inflatables saying things like "brand new condition, been in storage 20 years", think about the seams letting go. Not such great deal when that happens.

[hellosailor]

Minggat, I've seen two types of "delamination". The more common is glued seams (as opposed to thermal or ultrasonic welded) ones opening up as they age. That's not true delamination though.

True delamination in hypalon refers to the hypalon "plastic", which is calendered into a cloth substrate under high pressure and bonded with it (much like the epoxy or resin in fiberglass matrices), lifting and separating from the substrate.

Even with top quality materials--or materials represented as being top quality--this is an ongoing problem. The laminate itself tends to bubble and lift and delaminate. Very much like laminated foresails, where no matter what you do or how you treat them, the mylar (etc) outer skin wrinkles like an orange peel and lifts from the cloth under it, and the sail is shot.

The folks who make neoprene and "crushed neoprene" drysuits make a competitive selling point over this failure of laminated materials. Hypalon and others, all apparently have the same problem. The "plastic" layer stretches and distorts from pressure changes, and pulls free of whatever reinforcing layer it was bonded to. the good stuff just takes longer to do so.

[Minggat]

Hellosailor,

Thank you for that. Very professionally stated. Your experience exceeds mine and I'm glad you shared here. I am not a pro, but I knew enough to not feel so warm and fuzzy about what I was reading.

I simply didn't want folks to go away with the idea that they now had the "secret" to reparing their dinks and further complicating a proper repair later down the road.

As you stated, "true delamination" is not so common. Being aware of that I could see the thread going counter-productive with some of the ideas I was reading.

So nothing last forever. But "Top Quality" for inflatables is still Hypalon I assume. Your post has reflected some pretty ugly stuff that can happen. That's the nature of dealing with anything on a professional basis rather than from what most consumers will ever see.

I'm trying to say that people should not be put off over Hypalon any more than they should be put off over swiming in the ocean after watching "Jaws". And as stated earler, We ARE NOT seeing the end of Hypalon just yet. My thread title ended with a question mark, which was quickly answered. Maybe the Mods can modify the title to read- "Not the End of Hypalon" so people aren't misled.

[hellosailor]

Minggat, I'd also think hypalon are still the best dinks since the alternative is mainly PVC and that takes damage, stretches, tears, too. Funny how none of them mention "You can expect this to last xx years" up front though, isn't it?

Maybe in the long run it makes more sense to buy PVC, take good care of it, and just replace it more often--for less money?

[Minggat]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Funny how none of them mention "You can expect this to last xx years" up front though, isn't it?

Maybe in the long run it makes more sense to buy PVC, take good care of it, and just replace it more often--for less money?

Please don't make me think.

I heard a dealer say one time that he loves PVC inflatables. Made a lot of money repairing them.

[hellosailor]

"PVC inflatables. Made a lot of money repairing them. "

But at least PVC is EASY TO REPAIR! Instead of buying expensive short-shelf life Hypalon adhesive kits, you go to any pool supply store and buy an inexpensive PVC patch kit. The glue is like old-fashioned model airplane cement (i.e. solvents) and way cheaper, too.

There's just got to be a better way, for dinks and liferafts both. I know the folks at PortaBote came up with an alternative...but that hasn't quite swept the world either. Maybe the right replacement for a dink is really a Bell Jet Pack ? <VBG> They've been a solution looking for a question for a long time, too.