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Old 27-01-2018, 12:34   #16
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Re: Steiner Binoculars

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Moondancer-
That's actually typical of the "better" optics market. A lot of higher end manufacturers offer a lifetime warranty, with variations. My binocs had one, and were replaced under it. Then after a second failure (20+ years) I sent them in again...and almost lost them as the company had gone bankrupt and I had to chase and retrieve them!
Some companies offer a 25-year warranty but don't count the years. Others have offered a three-year warranty in some years, and a lifetime warranty for "the same" model in other years, to compete with the market.
Bottom line, service and repairs can be damned expensive and a lifetime warranty is worth pursuing. For the makers, it is arguably cheaper to replace with new, than to start doing hand dis-assembly and hand repair and hand re-assembly, and trying to do all that in a clean-room environment that can match what original production quality was.
Lifetime warranties - sometimes only good for the lifetime of the manufacturer rather than the purchaser

That aside, I have a handful of items that carry a lifetime warranty, all well used but so far never had to make a claim - it that good value or bad value

As to buying new items now, it would seem the lifetime warranty is now an advantage to the manufacturer rather than me - given life expectancy numbers

But yes, quality is always a joy to own / use.
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Old 27-01-2018, 12:37   #17
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Re: Steiner Binoculars

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
FWIW:

In 1994 I too bought a first rate pair of binoculars... but from Fujinon. They too are still in common use on our full time cruising boat, and are in damn good nick. The difference is that they have not needed refurbing, refilling or replacing as seems to have been the fate of the Steiners. The only failure is the rubber eye cups which have indeed decayed.

Not too shabby IMO.

Jim
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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
Ditto failure on my Fujinons that I bought in about 1995. Eye cups perished and the rubber armouring looking a bit knocked about....

When the boat was under overhaul I sent them to Baker Marine Baker Marine and had them serviced ( centre 'hinge' was as stiff as ) and re-armoured. Not cheap but worth the money.
Gentlemen, what model of Fujinon do you have?
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Old 27-01-2018, 12:38   #18
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Re: Steiner Binoculars

Another point to consider when buying binos...

Old binoculars ( say 30 years ago or more ) had fixed 'eyecups' ... not very good if you wear glasses.

Later ones had fold down rubber eyecups.... the ones on my Fujinons failed after about 20 years... the ones on a pair of Nikon Action 8 x 42s ( cost about $100) that I have failed within 4 years.

Part of the solution may well be to ensure that they are not left folded down and under stress.

Another solution is the one that Nikon now have on their glasses... two stop 'click out' hard eye caps..... worth looking for when shopping....
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Old 27-01-2018, 12:43   #19
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Re: Steiner Binoculars

A friend of mine is a big time birder, and they're very into binocs and high end binocs. Some 25 years ago he spent a good sum on one of the top names, somehow not noticing that at that time they had only a 3-year warranty not the then-normal lifetime warranty from that company and the other top-tiers. Well, last year he sent his binocs in for a service estimate because there was "dirt" inside them. Estimate could have simply not "not economically feasible" because it was THAT high.

So he spoke to a customer relations VP that he'd met at a recent trade show. After a couple of months of very reasonable back-and-forth, the VP saw the point that their good name was at stake here, and he replaced the older set with a newer model that had all the same "minor" features, which the simply comparable new model didn't. Let's just say that VP made his customer very very happy, and has gotten a lot of PR from it. His corporate masters quickly grasped the point that a 3-year warranty (which came and went, back to lifetime long ago) really was an embarrassment that they needed to not repeat.

Sometimes, there are logical humans that can be spoken with. To the advantage of all parties.

Eye cups are one of those things, like a choice of skirt or slacks, that everyone will never agree on. Some folks like rubber, but rubber breaks down, especially if skin acids, bug repellents, or sunblock get to it. (There's a melted area on my binocs from bug or sun stuff!) Some are solid plastic rings that click in or out, others prefer "hoods" that cup and cover the side of the eye socket to keep out glare. With rubber ones, like everything, you need Armorall or they can easily be replaced when needed. But the choice of one style and size versus the other can make or break a sale. And if you wear any type of glasses, even sunglasses, the rubber eyecups become not so useful any more, and the hooded ones become impossible. If you are bare-faced...well, it turns things around.
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Old 27-01-2018, 12:46   #20
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Re: Steiner Binoculars

Fujinon FMTR 7x50s

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...Binocular.html
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Old 27-01-2018, 12:55   #21
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Re: Steiner Binoculars

I found a new pair 7x50 Steiners made in Germany with lifetime warranty for under $200. Great value in optics.
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Old 27-01-2018, 14:16   #22
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Re: Steiner Binoculars

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Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
Gentlemen, what model of Fujinon do you have?
I'm not one of the gentlemen, but my Fujis are ancient Meibos, 7x50, handed down from my Dad.

Some people don't appreciate good optics -- that's OK. For them, some Chinese plastic binos (stencil branded with some or another maker, even Fuji) are perfectly OK. But for those of us who care about good optics -- this won't do.

Just are there are Fujis, and then there are Fujis, the same is true with Steiners. The Navigator is a mass market bino which is nothing special optically. The Commander is the serious one. The Steiner Commander is a beautiful optic, but I think the Fuji Polaris is half a cut above.

I also have a pair of Leica Trinovid binos on board. I love Leica lenses and use them for still photography -- I have a bunch of them including a Noctilux. But my Leica binocs are not as good as my Dad's battered Fuji Meibos. The Fujis are very special; the images pop; the tonal scale is remarkable. I keep them always in the cockpit and spend a lot of time with them.
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Old 27-01-2018, 14:19   #23
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Re: Steiner Binoculars

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In my opinion, the best binos you can buy today.
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Old 27-01-2018, 14:32   #24
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Re: Steiner Binoculars

"7x50 Steiners made in "
Steiner, like pretty much everyone else, may make a half dozen "same size" optics, all in varying quality grades with varying features.
As with Nikon, who made a a similar "Monarch 3" Monarch 5, Monarch 7, and a couple of other models all in the same optics sizes, with varying focus, waterproofing, warranties, "armor"...But this is the world that NEEDS 80 kinds of toothpaste and 100 yogurts on the shelf. (sigh)

One of the things that people don't commonly realize is that there are very few companies that actually produce their own optical glass. It used to be produced (still is?) by melting the ingredients in a very large and expensive platinum crucible, to prevent contamination. In the 70's I think there were about seven or eight companies on the planet that did this. (Folks like Canon, Nikon, Leica, Olympus, etc.) The folks that didn't own a crucible of their own, had to contract out for glass, or buy rejects from a prime maker.

When lenses are cast, sometimes there are imperfections in the glass. A high quality control, like a Leica or Swarovski, will reject any imperfections. But why throw out the glass, when so many other folks will gladly use it, and it is often "good enough" as the price point gets down. Then in the manufacturing, there are more qc grades because sometimes the surface is not perfectly machined. So some brands like Tasco were (in)famous because their qc was very loose. One might might look like $50 tourist trade junk, the next pair could and would rival Steiners and Fujis. But you couldn't be sure of what you were getting unless you took them off the shelf and checked through a few pair.

The production may be different now, and there are lens makers supposedly making their own glass in the Phillipines and China now, both at low costs, but in some ways the market never changes. There will always be bargains and gambles--and the truly exceptional top of the line stuff, that costs dearly but can be worthwhile if you are a critical user and plan to get 40 years out of them.

In the last few years, in both birding and high end sniper rifle scopes, a number of products have been made using video instead of just optics. Lens up front, yes, but then high resolution video displaying in the eyepiece and optionally recording or processing the image. I don't think that's hit the marine market yet.
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Old 27-01-2018, 17:15   #25
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Re: Steiner Binoculars

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
.......... And if you wear any type of glasses, even sunglasses, the rubber eyecups become not so useful any more, and the hooded ones become impossible. If you are bare-faced...well, it turns things around.
I think you may have muddled that.... the hard eyecups were the ones hopeless if you wore glasses..... the rubber ones can be folded back to alter the eye relief and let you wear glasses while using them. Sadly the 'folding back' is what causes the rubber to fail....
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Old 27-01-2018, 17:26   #26
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Re: Steiner Binoculars

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I'm not one of the gentlemen, but my Fujis are ancient Meibos, 7x50, handed down from my Dad.

......
Well I'm certain you are a gentleman but the reason you weren't included in my previous post / question was because you had already stated which model Fujinon you were referring to. The other named gentlemen did not include this (to me) vital detail...(very sad ).
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Old 27-01-2018, 17:31   #27
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Re: Steiner Binoculars

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In my opinion, the best binos you can buy today.
Now that is big call and I value you opinion
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Old 27-01-2018, 22:53   #28
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Re: Steiner Binoculars

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Now that is big call and I value you opinion

Best bang for the buck maybe, and best general purpose 7X50... I think Swarovski make better bins but at a far higher price.... or if really keen you could spring for a pair of Nikon WX IF 7x50's.... only $US6000.... Nikon 7x50 and 10x50 WX binoculars
and according to that reviewer 'These are the best binoculars ever produced, and as such they are, at least to me, the most exciting introduction to the binocular market of the century.'

A bit more http://www.holgermerlitz.de/nikon_wx/nikon_wx2.html

'Even when compared to the best of the best, the Swarovski 10x50 EL WB, which has 6.6° and is close to perfection within 90%, the WX still offers almost twice an area of perfect star images. Similarly, the 7x50 has 10.7°, 9.6° (again 90%) showing pinpoint stars. The closest competitors, Nikon SP or Fujinon FMT-SX, have 7.3° and 7.5'

For the average punter... do you get an extra $5400 worth if bino? Probably not.

My current 'go to' bins on the boat are a pair of Nikon Monarch 7 10x42s.... but not at night or if there is a sea running...
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Old 28-01-2018, 01:53   #29
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Re: Steiner Binoculars

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Best bang for the buck maybe, and best general purpose 7X50... I think Swarovski make better bins but at a far higher price.... or if really keen you could spring for a pair of Nikon WX IF 7x50's.... only $US6000.... Nikon 7x50 and 10x50 WX binoculars
and according to that reviewer 'These are the best binoculars ever produced, and as such they are, at least to me, the most exciting introduction to the binocular market of the century.'
......
Crikey, what was I thinking... trying to get the best for under a lousy $1,000; clearly should be throwing another 5K into the ring. And at >2 Kg, think of the money I will be saving in gym fees. I'd be looking like Popeye within a month!
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Old 28-01-2018, 02:11   #30
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Re: Steiner Binoculars

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Crikey, what was I thinking... trying to get the best for under a lousy $1,000; clearly should be throwing another 5K into the ring. And at >2 Kg, think of the money I will be saving in gym fees. I'd be looking like Popeye within a month!
Cheapskate!!!!

The Fujinons run at 1.42 kg .... which is why I tend to reach for the Monarchs ...

Buy the Fujis... you wont be disappointed ....
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