Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 06-03-2011, 14:54   #16
Registered User
 
cfarrar's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Brooklin, Maine U.S.A
Boat: Allures 44
Posts: 734
Images: 2
Re: Small RIB vs larger non-RIB

Quote:
comparing two similarly-sized boats, one a RIB, the other not- the RIB will have significantly less interior room.
I think you mean the opposite... All else being equal, the RIB has a deep bilge, whereas the airfloor has, well, a shallow, flat floor!

Of the two boats you cite, I'm confident that the dink with the longer waterline will plane more easily, especially since it's lighter and has a bigger motor.

Still, the RIB has its advantages. Also, Bash makes a great point about choosing the right size. I defer to his advice, along with others who have more experience with various dinks.
__________________

__________________
cfarrar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 14:54   #17
Registered User
 
psneeld's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Avalon, NJ
Boat: Albin 40 double cabin Trawler
Posts: 1,831
Re: Small RIB vs larger non-RIB

Some might argue that an aluminum jon boat is the idea choice. there are many variables from boat to motor to whether you like to row or sail more. Your needs and limitations (size, weight, money. longevity) all factor in....anyone who says one is better than the other isn't looking at all cruising situations.
__________________

__________________
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 15:00   #18
Commercial Member
 
Mark Johnson's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: New Bern NC
Boat: Searunner 34 Trimaran
Posts: 1,565
Re: Small RIB vs larger non-RIB

I suggest that the RIB is a vastly better boat, IF you can store it. They can be drug up a beach, last longer, handle better, row better, (not great, but better), are more seaworthy, and are MUCH dryer boats. The high bow ribs, like the AB and Caribe are really dry.

We wanted the lightest RIB that would get two people and a scuba tank on plane, with our 56#, 8 HP motor. In this category... we went with the AB 9'6" single floor model. It was only 119 #s! (11 years ago +, and it's still in good shape). They are a bit lighter now. Our boat and motor weight was 180#s.

Neither the Caribe, nor double floor versions of either brand, are good with an 8 HP.

The "cutaway V hull", light wt version of Caribe is problematic. It can't be drug backwards, and doesn't tow well or track straight. This is also why we chose the AB.

There are other light wt, single floor, options available now, however... ARIA? APEX? Shop around.

I would go with a light wt single floor model, KNOWN to plane with an 8 HP motor. They are SO much easier to live with, and pumping the water out of a RIB after a rain is a small price to pay for the smaller motor's lighter weight, which requires a boat like ours. (It does have a small 3' long double floor to keep your feet dry, in spite of 2" of nuisance water inside.)

Remember, you need to be able to carry it up a beach, above the tideline, AND back!

Mark
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	00000023.JPG
Views:	168
Size:	205.5 KB
ID:	24665  
__________________
Mark Johnson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 15:11   #19
Commercial Member
 
Mark Johnson's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: New Bern NC
Boat: Searunner 34 Trimaran
Posts: 1,565
Re: Small RIB vs larger non-RIB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
G'Day Skip,

I'd also suggest looking at the Alumimium hull RIBs. A couple of brands available here in Oz are Gemini and Swift. Our 3.5 metre Gemini weighs 47 kg empty, and has served us well. Swift actually makes the hulls for both marques, and I think that their hypalon is a bit better fwiw.

Another thing to consider: air floor SIBs are not IMO nearly as stable or rigid as wood or alloy floored SIBs. Further, the air floor takes up lots more of your available interior room (much thicker than the rigid floors) and has a shorter life expectancy in heavy usage. From personal observation, Avon only guarantees the air floor for one year (friend's experience with 18 month old Avon air floor dying, NOT replaced or repaired under warranty). Lastly, don't

As always, YMMV, but having used both types, the RIB wins hands down for long term cruising usage.

Cheers,

Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II lying Morning Cove, NSW, Oz
The weak link with aluminum hull ribs, IMO, is that they paint the aluminum hull before gluing on the tubes. The tubes stay glued to the paint, but the paint eventually delaminates from the hull. They therefore don't last as long.

This is just my observation, but I had several different cruising friends that had this exact kind of early failure. It is also VERY difficult to rectify! They ALL bought new fiberglass RIBs.

Mark
__________________
Mark Johnson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 15:18   #20
Registered User
 
cfarrar's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Brooklin, Maine U.S.A
Boat: Allures 44
Posts: 734
Images: 2
Re: Small RIB vs larger non-RIB

The AB UL models are very light and come with unpainted aluminum bottoms. It's a new product, and I just noticed them on the website (note drool). Has anyone used one of these?
__________________
cfarrar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 15:21   #21
Registered User
 
psneeld's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Avalon, NJ
Boat: Albin 40 double cabin Trawler
Posts: 1,831
Re: Small RIB vs larger non-RIB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Johnson View Post
I suggest that the RIB is a vastly better boat, IF you can store it. They can be drug up a beach, last longer, handle better, row better, (not great, but better), are more seaworthy, and are MUCH dryer boats. The high bow ribs, like the AB and Caribe are really dry.

We wanted the lightest RIB that would get two people and a scuba tank on plane, with our 56#, 8 HP motor. In this category... we went with the AB 9'6" single floor model. It was only 119 #s! (11 years ago +, and it's still in good shape). They are a bit lighter now. Our boat and motor weight was 180#s.

Neither the Caribe, nor double floor versions of either brand, are good with an 8 HP.

The "cutaway V hull", light wt version of Caribe is problematic. It can't be drug backwards, and doesn't tow well or track straight. This is also why we chose the AB.

There are other light wt, single floor, options available now, however... ARIA? APEX? Shop around.

If they are so much more durable...why carry them above the high water mark...just drag them.

I would go with a light wt single floor model, KNOWN to plane with an 8 HP motor. They are SO much easier to live with, and pumping the water out of a RIB after a rain is a small price to pay for the smaller motor's lighter weight, which requires a boat like ours. (It does have a small 3' long double floor to keep your feet dry, in spite of 2" of nuisance water inside.)

Remember, you need to be able to carry it up a beach, above the tideline, AND back!

Mark
If they are so vastly superior and rugged...why not just drag them up the beach like you originally said as opposed to carrying them?

Everything in life is a compromise...to say it's vastly superior fit's your definition...not thousands of others.

More seaworthy????? Show one ounce of what definition of seaworthy you can apply to a RHIB over a soft bottom of the same size..

again I submit...hundreds of reasons to own a dingy...what are most of yours and apply them to a small vessel that best suits those needs.
__________________
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 15:29   #22
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,455
Re: Small RIB vs larger non-RIB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Johnson View Post
The weak link with aluminum hull ribs, IMO, is that they paint the aluminum hull before gluing on the tubes. The tubes stay glued to the paint, but the paint eventually delaminates from the hull. They therefore don't last as long.

This is just my observation, but I had several different cruising friends that had this exact kind of early failure. It is also VERY difficult to rectify! They ALL bought new fiberglass RIBs.

Mark
Don't know about other marques, but the Gemini and Swift hulls are NOT painted. They are powder coated, and this has proven to be quite durable. Our Gemini is now 7 years old, has been in constant use (full time live aboard cruising, not in marinas) and no detachment issues of any sort have emerged. Numerous acquaintances have similar experiences with these dinks. My only complaint about the Gemini is that the various attachments on this particular model (things like the safety rope attachments and the seat attachment) were made from webbing that died after about a year of sun exposure. They would have perhaps fixed under warranty, but we were away cruising in third world areas and it wasn't an option, so we repaired it ourselves.

Cheers,

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 16:04   #23
Commercial Member
 
Mark Johnson's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: New Bern NC
Boat: Searunner 34 Trimaran
Posts: 1,565
Re: Small RIB vs larger non-RIB

Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
If they are so vastly superior and rugged...why not just drag them up the beach like you originally said as opposed to carrying them?

Everything in life is a compromise...to say it's vastly superior fit's your definition...not thousands of others.

More seaworthy????? Show one ounce of what definition of seaworthy you can apply to a RHIB over a soft bottom of the same size..

again I submit...hundreds of reasons to own a dingy...what are most of yours and apply them to a small vessel that best suits those needs.
We carry our RIB rather than drag it only because it is easier. Actually we spin it around to face the water, carry the front half, and drag the stern. They are mighty tough, compared to a conventional inflatable, like the Achillies that we used to have.

Seaworthy... Of coarse they are more "seaworthy". The RIBs tubes are huge, and the bow is a foot higher off of the water. I have gone from TTSA in Trinidad, around the point to Chaguaramas bay, in high 25 knot winds and nasty 6' seas. I would NEVER try it in the same 9' 6" length conventional inflatable.

This incredible seaworthiness, stability, and versatility, is why the Cousteaus, Navy Seals, Coasties, Etc, choose them over either hard dinghies, or conventional inflatables.

They are vastly superior boats to conventional inflatables, in the things like handling, seaworthiness, dryness, lifespan, etc. that I listed.

This is not an opinion, they are. They may not at all be suitable for a person's needs. For some a rowing whitehall hard dink is right. For others a rollup floor inflatable suits better. It is all about looking at the pros and cons of each type, and deciding which fills your needs best.

You will get nowhere if you aren't honest about each boats pros & cons. Then just weigh what factors are most important, and get what fills the bill best.

I would never be so presumptuous as to tell someone else what kind of dinghy to get. I was only trying to help in assessing the RIBs virtues. Our RIB, was after many disastrous years with a hard dinghy, that was wet and had to be turned over on deck. It was killing my wife's back. The RIB is perfect for us.

On our previous 28' tri, a RIB would be useless for us. I had to reach W A Y over the side, and grab the 55# conventional wood floor inflatable, then sling it into the netting between my crossbeams. I could never do this with a RIB. I did, however, know that RIBs were better boats. They just weren't what I needed. I needed what I had. Besides, 22 years ago, I could NEVER afford one!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	203.JPG
Views:	139
Size:	83.0 KB
ID:	24666  
__________________
Mark Johnson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 16:23   #24
Registered User
 
psneeld's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Avalon, NJ
Boat: Albin 40 double cabin Trawler
Posts: 1,831
Re: Small RIB vs larger non-RIB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Johnson View Post
We carry our RIB rather than drag it only because it is easier. Actually we spin it around to face the water, carry the front half, and drag the stern. They are mighty tough, compared to a conventional inflatable, like the Achillies that we used to have.

Seaworthy... Of coarse they are more "seaworthy". The RIBs tubes are huge, and the bow is a foot higher off of the water. I have gone from TTSA in Trinidad, around the point to Chaguaramas bay, in high 25 knot winds and nasty 6' seas. I would NEVER try it in the same 9' 6" length conventional inflatable.

This incredible seaworthiness, stability, and versatility, is why the Cousteaus, Navy Seals, Coasties, Etc, choose them over either hard dinghies, or conventional inflatables.

They are vastly superior boats to conventional inflatables, in the things like handling, seaworthiness, dryness, lifespan, etc. that I listed.

This is not an opinion, they are. They may not at all be suitable for a person's needs. For some a rowing whitehall hard dink is right. For others a rollup floor inflatable suits better. It is all about looking at the pros and cons of each type, and deciding which fills your needs best.

You will get nowhere if you aren't honest about each boats pros & cons. Then just weigh what factors are most important, and get what fills the bill best.

I would never be so presumptuous as to tell someone else what kind of dinghy to get. I was only trying to help in assessing the RIBs virtues. Our RIB, was after many disastrous years with a hard dinghy, that was wet and had to be turned over on deck. It was killing my wife's back. The RIB is perfect for us.

On our previous 28' tri, a RIB would be useless for us. I had to reach W A Y over the side, and grab the 55# conventional wood floor inflatable, then sling it into the netting between my crossbeams. I could never do this with a RIB. I did, however, know that RIBs were better boats. They just weren't what I needed. I needed what I had. Besides, 22 years ago, I could NEVER afford one!
OK...if you really think that a RHIB and a same length hard floor dink are vastly different in seaworthyness (and I'm not refering to a bit of speed) then there's not much more I can say. If speed is important over everything else...why are there sailors out there?


And comparing 20 foot plus RHIBs to soft bottom ones (if there even are any anymore) that the military uses....give me a break...even the USCG is getting away from tubed RHIB's to soft foam sided boats...but when you get over 15 feet or so...you are in a totally different world to even discuss what most cruisers are going to use.

Yes I too love RHIBs to for some reasons...but they are NOT clearly superior in any category but speed that I have experienced... especially if you are the slightest bit careful with sharp objects... different maufacturers also produce significantly different products in both durability and performance.

based on my experiences...AVON remains at the top of my list...but I haven't had to repair too many others.
__________________
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 16:48   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: east bay california.
Boat: first a 8ft then a 10ft now a 14ft lido moving up and happy about it
Posts: 66
Re: Small RIB vs larger non-RIB

the coast guard is leaving RIB's all together. they have recently started replacing them with Boston whalers.

why does it have to be a rib? or inflatable?

have you looked at hard dinks?

my personal choice is

Livingston Boats - Home

i have been asking about them and looking them up for awhile and recently got my hands on my own and am really happy with it.

john
__________________
samson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 16:51   #26
Commercial Member
 
Mark Johnson's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: New Bern NC
Boat: Searunner 34 Trimaran
Posts: 1,565
Re: Small RIB vs larger non-RIB

Quote:
Originally Posted by cfarrar View Post
The AB UL models are very light and come with unpainted aluminum bottoms. It's a new product, and I just noticed them on the website (note drool). Has anyone used one of these?
I just looked at their web site... THANKS! They look nice. The new bare aluminum models are much flatter hulls with less of a "V" or up swept bow, so it would be much wetter, but they would plane quicker with a smaller motor.

This less deep V feature is why, when we were making our choice 11 years ago, our AB would plane with an 8 HP, but the Carib required a 15 HP. The Caribe had a deeper V than ours, making it require more power to plane, but also making them dryer boats. We opted for quicker to plane. Weight is EVERYTHING on a small tri.

This new bare aluminum model, at almost half of the weight of ours, would presumably plane really easily, due to such a modest V, albeit wetter. It might even be suitable with a smaller 5 or 6 HP motor as well?

As we get older, we become more willing to live with the downsides of a flatter hull, if the entire boat weight is half as much. They are supposedly much cheaper too!

Good find, thanks,
Mark
__________________
Mark Johnson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 17:40   #27
Registered User
 
matauwhi's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Bay of Islands, New Zealand
Boat: Mason 53
Posts: 652
Re: Small RIB vs larger non-RIB

G'day, Skipmac. 13 years now and counting on our aluminum v-hull, 10 ft, 19 inch tubes, pvc rib. A set of chaps will help delay the eventual UV deterioration. You will get a much drier ride if you go with the larger diameter tubes and you won't regret it. Cheers.
__________________
matauwhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 17:52   #28
Moderator
 
Adelie's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: La Ciudad de la Misión Didacus de Alcalá en Alta California, Virreinato de Nueva España
Boat: Cal 20
Posts: 4,621
Re: Small RIB vs larger non-RIB

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
If you plan on landing on anything but a sandy beach then always the Rib is the thing to take, budget allowing.

A soft bottom dinghy and two jars of two-component dinghy glue are second best.

b.
I agree with B that a hard bottom is the way to go which means RIB or hard dink. However the defiition of RIB can be a little fuzzy. WalkerBay has inflatible collars available for their hard dinghy's. http://www.walkerbay.com/rigid-dinghies-sailboats/275

Would this fit in people's definition of RIB or would this be an improved version of a hard dink?
__________________
A house is but a boat so poorly built and so firmly run aground no one would think to try and refloat it.
SailboatData
Adelie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 17:52   #29
Registered User
 
psneeld's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Avalon, NJ
Boat: Albin 40 double cabin Trawler
Posts: 1,831
Re: Small RIB vs larger non-RIB

Quote:
Originally Posted by samson View Post
the coast guard is leaving RIB's all together. they have recently started replacing them with Boston whalers.

why does it have to be a rib? or inflatable?

have you looked at hard dinks?

my personal choice is

Livingston Boats - Home

i have been asking about them and looking them up for awhile and recently got my hands on my own and am really happy with it.

john
I'm not sure about the BW's...here's from Wiki-

The Coast Guard planned to reduce the inventory of Boston Whalers because of the lack of interoperable spare parts. On Friday, July 13th, the General Services Administration approved the transfer of 10 Coast Guard boats to the Army in Iraq. The boats, 24' and 27' Boston Whalers with trailers, had an original acquisition cost of more than $800,000. The Army is looking for approximately 55 Riverine or Patrol style boats to conduct water interdiction, river denial and island clearance missions, troop transport and insertion on a regular basis; the Coast Guard is providing the Army with the Boston Whalers and one Ambar boat, a patrol type vessel. [12]

The last time the USCG bought BW's...they were sorry then too....

The trend is for the foam hulls versus inflatable...
__________________
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 17:57   #30
Registered User
 
psneeld's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Avalon, NJ
Boat: Albin 40 double cabin Trawler
Posts: 1,831
Re: Small RIB vs larger non-RIB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adelie View Post
I agree with B that a hard bottom is the way to go which means RIB or hard dink. However the defiition of RIB can be a little fuzzy. WalkerBay has inflatible collars available for their hard dinghy's. 275 Rigid Inflatable Dinghy | Walker Bay Boats | Inflatable Boats, Dinghy, Kayaks, Sailboats and Yacht Tenders

Would this fit in people's definition of RIB or would this be an improved version of a hard dink?
I would call it an improved hard dink as the original hull design could be a vast difference...but then again..there's no standard for calling an RHIB a RHIB.
__________________

__________________
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
rib

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Small (Very Old!) Avon RIB - What to Look for ? David_Old_Jersey Auxiliary Equipment & Dinghy 2 03-09-2010 15:20
For Sale: Mercury RIB rourkeh Classifieds Archive 0 21-07-2010 06:48
RIB on Davits: To Be, or Not to Be ? prohor Auxiliary Equipment & Dinghy 8 20-07-2010 08:22
rib allegedly Auxiliary Equipment & Dinghy 5 22-09-2008 13:36
yachtline RIB bobsadler Auxiliary Equipment & Dinghy 0 27-08-2008 04:29



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:36.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.