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Old 19-12-2018, 02:51   #1
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Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

Inspired by some of the threads here such as diesel outboards, electric outboards with solar and recharged back at the mother ship, I thought I would make a proposal for discussion.

How about just using your generator to give your torqeedo more range in emergencies as in 10% of the time. Mostly you are just traveling 200 meters a few times a day, so the battery would keep up and then at night receive a mother ship charge. However to give it that little extra for longer trips, then just pickup your 2kw honda and stick it in the dinghy.
Advantages are...you already have the honda so why not take advantages of an extremely modular system that has individually manageable components, not like the heavy outboard that strains your back every so often.

I know, I know, you don't want gas onboard, you don't have a honda generator, the electric solution is too slow and has no range, this is all too complicated etc etc.....
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Old 19-12-2018, 04:24   #2
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Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuss View Post
Inspired by some of the threads here such as diesel outboards, electric outboards with solar and recharged back at the mother ship, I thought I would make a proposal for discussion.

How about just using your generator to give your torqeedo more range in emergencies as in 10% of the time. Mostly you are just traveling 200 meters a few times a day, so the battery would keep up and then at night receive a mother ship charge. However to give it that little extra for longer trips, then just pickup your 2kw honda and stick it in the dinghy.
Advantages are...you already have the honda so why not take advantages of an extremely modular system that has individually manageable components, not like the heavy outboard that strains your back every so often.

I know, I know, you don't want gas onboard, you don't have a honda generator, the electric solution is too slow and has no range, this is all too complicated etc etc.....
If you have both the Generator and electric motor I think the only question would be is whether your charging system can keep up with the demand. There are YouTube videos on taking a cheap engine ( lawn mower) and alternator and making a high amp charger. if I ever do this I will surely use it to increase my trolling motors range.
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Old 19-12-2018, 07:11   #3
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Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

So when you beach the dinghy you don't worry only for the outboard but for the generator as well ....
Just kidding , hybrid systems don't really worth the hasle, plus your Honda gen will be multiple times wet with salt water something your don't want .

1 hour of dinghy power I believe is enouph with the best schenario having 2 batteries so you can exchange if you need more , if the outboard power fail you you can always paddle if you have a proper dinghy , or sail if your dignhy offers this luxury.
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Old 19-12-2018, 07:16   #4
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Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

Just get a new 5 hp extra long shaft 4 stroke Mercury or Tohatsu Outboard. The Mercury version has an integral tank, but can also be connected to a large external tank.

They are almost as good on gas as a diesel and are very reliable if you know anything about engines

I bought mine in 2011 and it's doing great. I have solar power so no alternator on the outboard.
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Old 19-12-2018, 09:29   #5
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Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

This would only make sense if you're talking about using the Honda to recharge the outboard's battery pack & even then it doesn't really make sense unless you're already using the Honda every day for something else. I think the only way electric outboards make sense for a cruiser is if you have multiple battery packs & a diesel generator that is being run anyway.
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Old 19-12-2018, 10:52   #6
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Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

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I think the only way electric outboards make sense for a cruiser is if you have multiple battery packs & a diesel generator that is being run anyway.
Indeed, no reason to replace a gas outboard with an electric outboard and a gas genset.
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Old 19-12-2018, 11:25   #7
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Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

Things like the Torqeedo are good but really expensive. There are other options for either a bolt on outboard style motor or fitting an inboard electric motor if you have a rigid dingy. Both of which would run on standard battery packs. Lithium is good mainly because it is light so easy to handle but substantially more expensive. FLA is the most economical but much more weight so depends on you priorities. Either gives you as much range as you want, just add mor batteries. Charging is simply a matter of adding a lead from the onboard system to utilize solar or other sources. The biggest argument for inboard systems in my view is that it allows for larger and more efficient prop selection.

Not done it yet but I am developing plans for a folding cat which is basically 2 canoe hulls connected by beams with a 2hp inboard in each hull. Not a high priority however as I like paddling and currently use a 15ft inflatable kayak. May also consider a sun cover made from solar panels (potentially 500w) which probably means that when plugged into the mother ship it would charge the main batteries rather than drain the ships system. But this would make a lot more work to set up and pack away.
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Old 19-12-2018, 11:31   #8
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Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

Fuss,

KISS. Get the 2 stroke or 4 stroke outboard of your choice. Electric is never going to give you the cost effective power to go any reasonable distance under any kind of load. A small tank of gasoline or diesel contains mucho energy.

Electric is expensive and inefficient. I even had a Torqeedo dealer once tell me to go with a standard outboard unless I absolutely wanted to spend more to get less.
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Old 19-12-2018, 12:24   #9
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Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

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Fuss,

KISS. Get the 2 stroke or 4 stroke outboard of your choice. Electric is never going to give you the cost effective power to go any reasonable distance under any kind of load. A small tank of gasoline or diesel contains mucho energy.

Electric is expensive and inefficient. I even had a Torqeedo dealer once tell me to go with a standard outboard unless I absolutely wanted to spend more to get less.
All possibly true but probably irrelevant. Having gone from a 5HP 4 stroke Honda, 2 strokes are illegal to sell in the EU, to a Torqeedo I appreciate the fact that I have got less for more money:

Less weight. Less danger to my back. Less probable damage to my gel coat. Less likelihood of an explosion from petrol. Less mess. Less maintenance. Less chance of theft as the parts can be locked out of sight on the boat and the control taken when leaving the tender. Less noise. Less delay in starting. Less lag.

Everybody has different needs, but for most less distance is about as irrelevant as not having a car capable of 200mph. When you get to Italy you will probably find that out.
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Old 19-12-2018, 12:39   #10
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Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

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Fuss,

KISS. Get the 2 stroke or 4 stroke outboard of your choice. Electric is never going to give you the cost effective power to go any reasonable distance under any kind of load. A small tank of gasoline or diesel contains mucho energy.

Electric is expensive and inefficient. I even had a Torqeedo dealer once tell me to go with a standard outboard unless I absolutely wanted to spend more to get less.

The reason to look at is not simply economics. Electric is clean, renewable, quite and eliminates the need to carry smelly and dangerous cans of gas. Gas engines are also often unreliable and need regular servicing. In many places 2t is already banned or restricted. So for me there are big attractions to going to electric and while it is not possible for a main engine yet it is definitely becoming practical for dinghies.

Many places are looking at time frames for eliminating gas power cars already so I am sure we will see those moves in the marine sector as well so why not be ahead of the game? Within 20 years we are all likely to be living in a 'post fossel fuel economy' living in a zero emission house or boat and driving an electric car/dingy. Early adopters frequently find themselves in a good position when major change occurs so why not look at it now.
There is also the moral position. The move away from a carbon dependent economy is a necessity for survival of our species so anything we, as individuals, can do to help the transition I believe we should do. This is not 'doomsday scenarios' this is real and now, California is burning, the gulf coast and Florida is flooding, the Caribbean is being flattened by hurricanes. These are not accidents or blips this is global warming on track and exactly as predicted. What we all do in the next 20 years make the difference between an orderly transition to a sustainable future or a collapse of the global economy but one way or another change will happen.
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Old 19-12-2018, 13:06   #11
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Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

"There is also the moral position. The move away from a carbon dependent economy is a necessity for survival of our species so anything we, as individuals, can do to help the transition I believe we should do."

Dream on. The other reasons for going electric are good. That one is currently (pun intended) largely hogwash.

What do you think generates the electricity? Solar, wind and hydro a bit but oil, coal and gas most. So fossil. The studies indicate nuclear to be the only genuinely viable alternative. That raises other debates.
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Old 19-12-2018, 14:27   #12
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Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

I'm actively wanting a Torqeedo to supplement my 15hp 2t Enduro. I Have an AB 95 pound RIB.

The 1003c is getting a 10% bump to become the 1103c and no gears. Virtually silent it appears. That's appealing to me. Recharging from solar sounds ideal.


I would buy a spare battery before I drag my Honda along, mainly for theft reasons, but salt water exposure is also a concern. And truthfully, a spare battery isn't likely to be needed. Longer distances, that's what bigger outboards are for.

As far as technically how to use the Honda 2k on the dinghy, does the Torqeedo 1003 allow charging while in use? They claim yes, using the solar port that it can charge while in use. Has anyone hooked up the direct unregulated DC cables from a Honda 2k into a Torqeedo? Do you want to be the first? If using AC and a charger, then you still have to go through that solar port. Unless you are talking about having external battery.

What did you have in mind?
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Old 19-12-2018, 14:30   #13
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Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

Takes a lot of panel watts, or a long time to recharge EP-scale power from solar.

Like a big gusher pipe outbound, with an eyedropper on the input side.
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Old 19-12-2018, 15:19   #14
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Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alita49DS View Post
Having gone from a 5HP 4 stroke Honda, 2 strokes are illegal to sell in the EU, to a Torqeedo I appreciate the fact that I have got less for more money:

Less weight. Less danger to my back. Less probable damage to my gel coat. Less likelihood of an explosion from petrol. Less mess. Less maintenance. Less chance of theft as the parts can be locked out of sight on the boat and the control taken when leaving the tender. Less noise. Less delay in starting. Less lag.
Except that the OP proposed to take along a Honda genset to recharge the battery. Do that and all your "less" vanishes. All you are left with is less money.
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Old 19-12-2018, 15:44   #15
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Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

There's no doubt humanity is transitioning away from fossil fuels. Everything about boats is a compromise & electric propulsion is no exception. There are viable options but you cannot gloss over the limitations, ie, speed & distance. With 2 batteries & an efficient displacement hull this can work as long as you have a viable way to recharge the batteries & right now that's probably not solar.
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