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hellosailor · 21-12-2015, 20:34

FWIW, if you are going to try perc, go to an auto shop and look for "brake cleaner". Perc used to be used for this because it would take off everything and then flash away with no residue. That's now banned in many places so there are varying mixes of other chemicals sold, pretty much equally effective. (And I'd still use the respirator.)

SailFastTri · 21-12-2015, 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Yeah, Toluene is fairly nasty stuff. A respirator with an organic vapour cartridge would be a good investment for you, Skip! And for that job, the "good ventilation" that is recommended then increases the rate of flash-off of the solvent, making the job harder. Bugger...

Jim

PS Did you try either tri- or perchlorethelyne? They sometimes work as solvents for the same things that Toluene works on, and are much less toxic.

Perchlorethelyne AKA Perc is also nasty stuff and a known carcinogen. They used to use it for dry cleaning solvent until it was banned by the EPA. Don't assume it's less toxic.

**Jim Cate** · 22-12-2015, 00:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by SailFastTri

Perchlorethelyne AKA Perc is also nasty stuff and a known carcinogen. They used to use it for dry cleaning solvent until it was banned by the EPA. Don't assume it's less toxic.

Well, a lot of things are banned by the EPA... you can buy Perchlor in any big grocery store in New Caledonia, right next to the ammonia (toxic) bleach (toxic) and swimming pool acid (toxic), etc... .

But remember, Perchlor WAS used routinely in dryclean shops for years, with workers exposed 40+ hours a week, and some of them survived. A one time exposure to isn't likely to kill or maim Skip. Care is advised (as in my post) !!

I no longer have access to toxicity manuals, but iirc Toluol is a bit worse than perchlor. Perhaps I am wrong... I have a liter of perchlor in a locker on board. Useful stuff.

Jim

pitlaw · 23-12-2015, 13:11

Ok so My Avon 310 inflateable is most likely Hypalon based on the way it responds to sanding. I went to Home Depot and bought this little kit;http://gatorfinishing.com/wp-content...13/11/2225.jpg

(Gator 2" surface preparation disc kit)

My rail is only separating in some spots so I do not want to take it off completely. I can get in betwen the worst spots with one of the surface conditioning discs attached to portable drill. So far it works better than anything else. And no gunk build up on the disc or need for toxic stuff. Removal of the glue now seems possible. FWIW.

**skipmac** · 14-01-2016, 18:37

The rub rail is back on the dinghy.

I ended up using two different products; partly due to cost but also availability, convenience and I wanted to try both for comparison.

Started with the MarineTex Flex Set epoxy. Attached the bow section first as that seemed the best way to center the rub rail and have a secure point to stretch the rail out to the finished position on the tubes. It did take a pretty good pull to get the rail to stretch tight and fit all the way to the original end points at the back end of both tubes.

The Flex Set was pretty easy to work with, not too messy and not too difficult to clean up the squeeze out, drips and misses. It does take a few hours for the initial cure so had to secure the rail very well during the process. The directions said full cure in 24 hours but subjectively it seemed much stronger after a few days, however it was on the low side of recommended temps for application.

I did the gluing in sections, roughly a 3 oz applicator's worth at a time. 3 oz kit of Flex Set covered 3-4' of rub rail. Best deal I found was $18.60/kit delivered. The rail is 22' long and I did about half of it with 3 kits so $56 worth did half the rail. This was a good bit less coverage than I had hoped and with no marine stores within 2 hours drive I was going to have to order another $56 or more worth of epoxy and wait a week to finish the job. Since 5200 is available locally I decided to give that a try for the rest of the job.

One $20 tube of 5200 did the rest of the rail. Application and curing time was not too different from the epoxy so technique was similar.

A few comments and observations.

1. The epoxy adhered very well to the Hypalon. So well that after it cured fully it would pull the Hypalon away from the fabric layer underneath instead of the epoxy pealing off. Not quite as well to the PVC rail. After 24 hours I could pull out on the loose, unglued section of the rail and peel a bit away from the dinghy with moderate effort, the glue pulling off of the PVC rail, not the Hypalon tube. After another couple of days the bond did seem to be stronger and I was not able to pull the rail away from the tube but was not testing as aggressively as before.

2. Even after fully curing the epoxy remained flexible, living up to it's claims in that regard.

3. As expected the 5200 was much messier to work with than the epoxy and cleanup of mistakes and drips more difficult. Careful masking of the tubes before applying both adhesives was essential. Not only did it minimize the mess and greatly ease the cleanup and trimming afterwards but since both materials took some time to cure the masking was essential to visually insure the rail was mounted in the right spot and to reposition when it inevitably slipped while I was securing it in place for the overnight cure.

4. Securing the rail to the tubes for the curing period was a bit tricky, both positioning the rail and trying to hold the edges of the rail flat against the tube. The edges in places wanted to curl up and leave a gap between the rail and the tube. I used a good grade of duct tape and fully taped each edge section to the tubes as I glued it. This worked reasonably well. There were still gaps in spots but were acceptably small and easy to come back later with a gloved finger and fill the crack with a little more adhesive, leaving a fairly nice, clean edge.

5. The 5200 seems to stick very well to both surfaces although not like the epoxy. The 5200 I can scrape away the drips with a razor but trying to scrape off the epoxy rips the Hypalon coating from the fabric.

I've had the dink out a couple of times now, have inflated and deflated and so far so good. Will report back after a few months for further updates.

**JPA Cate** · 14-01-2016, 18:43

Skipmac: Thank you so much for the report. I suppose it is inevitable that the center stripe will try to part from the rest of the dinghy, and I will remember your success with the 5200, which we have used with success below the waterline on herculon (a pvc fabric with a nylon scrim).

Ann

Scout 30 · 15-01-2016, 00:40

Thanks for the update! I'm leaning towards the 5200 also as it's so easy to come by & there's no mixing but it is really messy & takes a long time to cure. It will be interesting to hear how it holds up.

Ericson38 · 29-05-2018, 12:33

Based on this analysis I'm going with FlexSet (Marine Tex Corp) for the two ends of the rubrail on our Avon 310 RIB, 2007 model.

On the two ends (at the cone sections of the main tubes) the rail is pulled back a few inches. So cleaned each side of those (Hypalon and PVC rail) with MEK, using a good wind as a precaution and heavy duty gloves. Also lightly wire brush with a very small toothbrush sized one with bronze bristles.

Flexset was ordered today. Should be here this Friday.

pitlaw · 29-05-2018, 14:10

I used 3M 4000, yes 4000 2.5 years ago and the rub rail repairs are still good. It is a flexible glue. And when its not rolled up, my Avon 310 usuall sits on the foredeck in the sun.

Ericson38 · 05-06-2018, 01:12

Update on FlexSet, easy to work with, good bond, strong after 24 hours, no worry on humidity levels, PVC to Hypalon bond worked.

**skipmac** · 05-06-2018, 16:38

Read some of the posts and thought it would be a good time to update the results of my repair.

Going on three years now and so far the rail is still attached on both the 5200 side and the MarineTex FlexSet side. During that time the dink has been used and abused, outside in the FL sun for months, tied to a dinghy dock for weeks, inflated and deflated.

Have not done a really close inspection for a few months so next time I'm there I'll look very carefully to see if there's any difference at all.

Unless I find some minor differences in the results my final conclusions:

- both 5200 and FlexSet worked very well.

- FlexSet easier to work with and less messy.

- 5200 very messy but much cheaper

Scout 30 · 05-06-2018, 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by skipmac

Read some of the posts and thought it would be a good time to update the results of my repair.

Going on three years now and so far the rail is still attached on both the 5200 side and the MarineTex FlexSet side. During that time the dink has been used and abused, outside in the FL sun for months, tied to a dinghy dock for weeks, inflated and deflated.

Have not done a really close inspection for a few months so next time I'm there I'll look very carefully to see if there's any difference at all.

Unless I find some minor differences in the results my final conclusions:

- both 5200 and FlexSet worked very well.

- FlexSet easier to work with and less messy.

- 5200 very messy but much cheaper

I really appreciate the review. I've just been using my Avon without the rubrail. If I just needed to do a small repair I'd go with the Flex Set but for the whole rubrail & around the transom it would be hard to justify the cost although when I think of what a mess 5200 makes ….

**skipmac** · 05-06-2018, 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scout 30

when I think of what a mess 5200 makes ….

Buy 20-30 rolls of blue painter's tape, the widest you can find. Also 5-10 boxes of disposable nitrile gloves, safety glasses, haz mat suit and a respirator. Park the dinghy somewhere far from your house, dock, driveway or anything else that you don't want covered with white drips. Carefully tape off everything for 5-6 feet around the rub rail, don the protective gear and get to work.

OK, I exaggerate slightly but you get the point. Liberal taping to mask off everything around the rub rail helps a lot.

The main tricky part I ran into was how to match the rub rail to the dinghy. You need to inflate the dinghy a good bit but maybe not fully inflated. Even then, my rub rail had to be stretched tight to fit back where it came from. I wrapped the ends of the rub rails with Gorilla Tape to use for pulling. Applied glue to a section around the bow and used the tape to pull the rub rail back and hold it tight until that area cured. Then glued another couple feet or so on each side, pulled the ends back again to hold in place until that section cured. At the same time I used more tape to prevent the rail from sliding up or down the sides of the tubes while under tension from the tape on the ends. Did this in section until I got to where the tape wrapped around the ends of the rub rail. By that time I had enough rail left that just a little tension with tape on top of the final section held it in place.

Wasn't perfect but came out pretty good.

Also, don't forget to prep the two surfaces you're bonding. I sanded any spots with lots of old glue residue and wiped everything liberally with solvent.

Scout 30 · 05-06-2018, 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by skipmac

Buy 20-30 rolls of blue painter's tape, the widest you can find. Also 5-10 boxes of disposable nitrile gloves, safety glasses, haz mat suit and a respirator. Park the dinghy somewhere far from your house, dock, driveway or anything else that you don't want covered with white drips. Carefully tape off everything for 5-6 feet around the rub rail, don the protective gear and get to work.

OK, I exaggerate slightly but you get the point. Liberal taping to mask off everything around the rub rail helps a lot.

The main tricky part I ran into was how to match the rub rail to the dinghy. You need to inflate the dinghy a good bit but maybe not fully inflated. Even then, my rub rail had to be stretched tight to fit back where it came from. I wrapped the ends of the rub rails with Gorilla Tape to use for pulling. Applied glue to a section around the bow and used the tape to pull the rub rail back and hold it tight until that area cured. Then glued another couple feet or so on each side, pulled the ends back again to hold in place until that section cured. At the same time I used more tape to prevent the rail from sliding up or down the sides of the tubes while under tension from the tape on the ends. Did this in section until I got to where the tape wrapped around the ends of the rub rail. By that time I had enough rail left that just a little tension with tape on top of the final section held it in place.

Wasn't perfect but came out pretty good.

Also, don't forget to prep the two surfaces you're bonding. I sanded any spots with lots of old glue residue and wiped everything liberally with solvent.

I'm not sure why I've been putting this off, it sounds so easy.