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Old 18-09-2018, 16:13   #16
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Question about removing Halon extinguisher.

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Originally Posted by HopCar View Post
Roger the Halon you had recycled is still out there and will eventually be released into the atmosphere. The term recycling when applied to Halon just means they sold it to someone else.


That is exactly correct, there is no efficient way to get rid of it.

I loved Germanís they tried so hard to be ďGreenĒ, but also were very logical people, and sometimes the two would be at odds.
They came and confiscated all our flight line Halon fire extinguishers, 150 lb ones I think, big things on wheels. Fleigorhorst was actually a NATO base, not a US one is why I think they could just walk up and confiscate them.
Anyway I was speaking to one that was confiscating them, and asked why, well he proudly puffed up and said, cause itís bad for the environment. I then asked him what he thought would be worse for the environment, discharge of some of that Halon, or the aircraft burning to the ground with all of its composites and hundreds of gallons of fuel etc.
You could see his face as that logic sunk in.

I had one complain to me about warming my car up before we left, cause it was bad for the environment. I explained to him that I was waiting for the Catalytic convertor to light off, that at idle I was consuming very little fuel and therefore polluting very little, but if I drove off with a cold Cat, I would pollute quite a bit until it became functional. He thought about it, and never said another word about me idling for a few minutes before I left.

The truth was that my US car had an electrically heated Cat and likely polluted about 1/4 as much as the average German car anyway, but I was nice enough to not bring that up.
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Old 18-09-2018, 16:18   #17
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Re: Question about removing Halon extinguisher.

Whatever itís worth, the Atmospheric CFCís are monitored, and for the first time in decades I believe the levels have increased.
One guess on who isnít playing by the rules and is releasing tons of it into the atmosphere?
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Old 18-09-2018, 16:30   #18
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Re: Question about removing Halon extinguisher.

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You don't "turn in" a Halon ext, you sell it. If your morals won't let you keep it, you sell it back to the fire ext guy. He is not going to dump it, it's valuable stuff. I get why households don't need Halon but airplanes and boats do.

If the system is viable, the bottle full, keep it. It is way better if you ever need it than dry powder or CO2 (another joke) No clean up. Be sure you are not itís victim, puts out fire by displacing air. You could suffocate.
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Old 18-09-2018, 16:33   #19
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Re: Question about removing Halon extinguisher.

There are at least 3 recognised ways to destroy it. May not be simple on a small scale but with controlled high temp incineration we can destroy most of these persistent nasties.
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Old 18-09-2018, 16:37   #20
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Question about removing Halon extinguisher.

Halon suffocation is another myth.
It will extinguish a fire and leave you plenty of O2 to breathe, CO2 can suffocate though.
Halon is used in armored combat vehicles cause it will put out the fire, and not suffocate the crew.
That was a myth that was hard to extinguish though, US tankers for years though if the fire extinguishing system went off they only had seconds to get out.

This is how the myths get started
https://forums.firehouse.com/forum/f...-bank-employee
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Old 18-09-2018, 16:37   #21
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Re: Question about removing Halon extinguisher.

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If the system is viable, the bottle full, keep it. It is way better if you ever need it than dry powder or CO2 (another joke) No clean up. Be sure you are not itís victim, puts out fire by displacing air. You could suffocate.
CO2 or Inergen and the derivatives of it work on displacing oxygen, foams and powder by blanketing(excluding oxygen), but Halon and others work chemically on the fire.
We design the Argonite, Inergen etc systems to permit breathing still so suffocation risk is minimised, toxic products from the fire are the more dangerous elements in a total flooding system.
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Old 18-09-2018, 16:43   #22
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Question about removing Halon extinguisher.

This is a good link about Halon.
https://www.h3rcleanagents.com/support_faq_2.htm
Not sure itís in here, but Halon does not smother a fire, it somehow chemically reacts with fuel rendering it inflammable, at a low concentration level that leaves you plenty of O2 to breathe.

However ANY gas other than O2 if the concentration is high enough, will suffocate you, even nitrogen. The trigger is that Halon extinguishes a fire at a low enough concentration that allows you to still breathe, so you could put the fire out with an Halon flood and just sit there.
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Old 18-09-2018, 16:47   #23
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Re: Question about removing Halon extinguisher.

IG51 and IG55 - both systems are designed to permit continuation of life. Actually CO2 is as well, but being heavier than air, it settles and concentration increases in the occupied zone.
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Old 18-09-2018, 17:18   #24
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Re: Question about removing Halon extinguisher.

Methane gas molecules consist of a single carbon atom with four hydrogen atoms at tetrahedral vertices. This gas oxidises brilliantly producing mainly water and carbon dioxide or sometimes some carbon monoxide. Not what you want near a fire. BCF gases are made by replacing the four hydrogen atoms with Bromine , Flourine or Chlorine atoms (the halogens) which just simply don't want to leave the carbon atom making the substance essentially inert. So commercial Halon gases use a mixture of these inert gases to suit conditions. Thus the different product numbers.
The problem is that these gases can upset the oxygen/ozone balance at the top of the atmosphere causing changes in our exposure to the two dangerous bands of UV. Thus the various international agreements to stop or minimize the production.
However, as an extinguisher or use as a refrigerant these gases are just great. An important advantage is that as extinguishers, they cause no corrosion or water damage.
However, they can kill you. They have no odour and they just displace oxygen from the air and you can easily suffocate. They still find use in engine rooms but require that nobody enters the area until the fire is out and the air has all been replaced. They can accumulate in bilges being denser than both oxygen and nitrogen.
I suspect that normal gas detectors can't detect the presence of BCF gases so a measure of circumspection may be in order. If you have a BCF halogen extinguisher, have it tested regularly. I believe that most of them do not not have an indicative pressure gauge.
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Old 18-09-2018, 17:29   #25
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Re: Question about removing Halon extinguisher.

Donít listen to people that will tell you they are illegal etc., at least not in the US. [/QUOTE]


Here in Australia there is an automatic fine of (I think) $2000 per extinguisher. I believe the only exemption is aviation use for which you need appropriate documentation.
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Old 18-09-2018, 22:40   #26
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Re: Question about removing Halon extinguisher.

Hey thanks for all the interesting replies. never expected to learn so much about Halon.

after more research and inspecting the bottle even closer i noticed that it has a sticker on the extinguisher listing the exact weight down to the ounce. I'm going to borrow a scale from work, remove it carefully from the bulkhead, cable attached and weigh the sucker. If its close to its listed weight im just going to re-attach it to the bulkhead and save it. if the weight is way off iv'e found a local fire extinguisher company that will re-charge it for $65.

i have plenty of extinguishers on board if i ever need it and it fails to work but from all the reading iv'e done lately its probably as good as the day it was installed.
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Old 18-09-2018, 22:43   #27
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Re: Question about removing Halon extinguisher.

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Originally Posted by qwert View Post
Donít listen to people that will tell you they are illegal etc., at least not in the US.

Quote:
Here in Australia there is an automatic fine of (I think) $2000 per extinguisher. I believe the only exemption is aviation use for which you need appropriate documentation.
does that extend to visiting cruisers or only residents?
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Old 18-09-2018, 22:53   #28
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Re: Question about removing Halon extinguisher.

" Any advice how to disconnect the cable? The silver barrel part thats in the cockpit surrounding the outer cable is threaded on but the red pull lever would prevent unscrewing it it looks like. On the hydrant end the end of the cable goes through a black plastic tab that is connected to an arm that wraps around the little inspection hourglass. I have no idea how fragile that little hourglass is and if breaking it discharges the contents?"

I have not worked on this actual brand, but on similar, so normal disclaimers apply.


Yes Ė breaking the temperature glass bulb will release the Halon. Do not do that!

Use some strong plastic tape or a plastic cable tie to tie the black lever in the existing down position to the discharge head rose. This will give you a mechanical advantage to help you not moving the lever and breaking the glass bulb.

Cut the cable tie holding the Pressure Switch wiring to the manual release cable. Ensure your battery is OFF, then disconnect the PS wiring to a convenient location. You may need to cut the wires and reconnect with heat shrinked marine cable connectors on reconnection. Note your engine probably will not run now. If this proves true, and if you intend to run while the system is out, you will need to bridge these wires.

Using an inspection mirror or your camera phone, check to see how the cable end is being retained at the back of the lever. Probably a spit pin or other such method. Carefully remove the split pin etc , and then very carefully the cable end from the black lever.

At the bottle head, remove the larger C pin, this will release the mechanical outer of the cable, which will allow you to remove the mechanical cable completely from the cylinder. Now you can remove the complete cylinder.

Replacement is reverse. Take your time and take care.
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Old 18-09-2018, 23:13   #29
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Re: Question about removing Halon extinguisher.

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Originally Posted by OldGreyB View Post
" Any advice how to disconnect the cable? The silver barrel part thats in the cockpit surrounding the outer cable is threaded on but the red pull lever would prevent unscrewing it it looks like. On the hydrant end the end of the cable goes through a black plastic tab that is connected to an arm that wraps around the little inspection hourglass. I have no idea how fragile that little hourglass is and if breaking it discharges the contents?"

I have not worked on this actual brand, but on similar, so normal disclaimers apply.


Yes Ė breaking the temperature glass bulb will release the Halon. Do not do that!

Use some strong plastic tape or a plastic cable tie to tie the black lever in the existing down position to the discharge head rose. This will give you a mechanical advantage to help you not moving the lever and breaking the glass bulb.

Cut the cable tie holding the Pressure Switch wiring to the manual release cable. Ensure your battery is OFF, then disconnect the PS wiring to a convenient location. You may need to cut the wires and reconnect with heat shrinked marine cable connectors on reconnection. Note your engine probably will not run now. If this proves true, and if you intend to run while the system is out, you will need to bridge these wires.

Using an inspection mirror or your camera phone, check to see how the cable end is being retained at the back of the lever. Probably a spit pin or other such method. Carefully remove the split pin etc , and then very carefully the cable end from the black lever.

At the bottle head, remove the larger C pin, this will release the mechanical outer of the cable, which will allow you to remove the mechanical cable completely from the cylinder. Now you can remove the complete cylinder.

Replacement is reverse. Take your time and take care.
hey thanks for the detailedd reply. i didnt think about using tape to hold the lever in the down position. was a little nervous about doing too much probing around that little hourglass. the end of the cable goes through that little lever and makes a couple sharp 45deg. bends to provide resistance from slipping through the hole. if i could slacken the pull cable some it looks like it would come out fairly easily. as a side note i would love to replace the pull cable or at very minimum get some oil down the cable. will take a closer look at it this weekend.
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Old 19-09-2018, 17:31   #30
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Re: Question about removing Halon extinguisher.

Since you describe the end into the bracket having 45 bends and not a circlip, then the design intent is the inner cable is long enough to remove the end from the bracket. Two designs allow for this. Firstly try removing the C clip holding the outer cable at the head. Sometimes this allows the outer cable to move towards the lever thus giving you slackness to wiggle the inner cable out of the black lever.

If the outer does not move towards the lever then you will need to remove or loosen off the knob at the helm end. Then lube this end with WD-40 or similar, as any stiction will be in the first 150mm of this end. Now at the cylinder end gently pull the inner cable downwards and wiggle the 45 bends out. Caution – do not get a bend or kink in the cable, gentle sweeps and take your time.

Since the outer cable clip is already released, at this point you can also move the outer cable sheath away from the cylinder head and this should give you more clearance / wiggle room to remove the inner cable from the lever.

For lubing the cable, I suggest once you have the cylinder off, then using a syringe filled with light machine oil, add a hose from the syringe end to the outer cable and clamp each end with two hose clips. Then pressurize the cable while a helper moves the cable up and back from the cylinder end. Take your time and you will end up with a free moving cable. Use a marine grease at the helm end to finish and provide a barrier when you reassemble. If you are feeling really cocky then one can pull the internal cable completely out to lube and reassemble, but personally if its moves and I have managed to get the lube oil through, then I would not take that risk.

An additional note with regards the PS wiring. Per USCG requirements this may only be an interrupt to the engine room ventilation blower, so be aware your blower may not work if the PS is disconnected but you engine may still run, depending on your boats wiring.

Post back if this all works – or what you did to achieve this or lessons learnt.
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